holy balls vayne nerfs

[quote=Zeprido][quote=DuffTime] If AD carry's role is deal damage, then Vayne by nature is the best AD carry, because she deals the most of it. [/quote] I am quoting this for the truth in the statement.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden]But still vayne is the AD carry needing most protection. Therefore being easier counterpicked than other ad-carries. Take away alistar and zil, force the enemy to run with a yorick in their team and counter him top. By taking away alistar, u also force the enemy vayne to a bad early-game and a passive midgame with a poor janna for protection. Caitlyn does not need a team build around her, nor does graves. They can both lane with a lot of supports, and are not nearly as reliant on extreme protection lategame. My point still stands although my original comparisons were biased and searched for. As a good example of this: Pretty sure EG never ran a vayne in their setup ;)[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=Pølsemanden] But still vayne is the AD carry needing most protection. [/quote] Rofl no.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden]Tell me what legitimately viable ad carry which needs more support?[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]Kog'Maw, Ashe off the top of my head. Vayne has a short distance low cooldown blink with stealth on it, and she can knock back one person chasing her. That's more escaping ability than a lot of AD carries. Something Guardsman said: Vayne does around the same amount of damage as Kog'Maw, but Kog has absolutely nothing to escape with and is incredibly squishy whereas Vayne can be very difficult to catch.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Yorick can support fairly well. Soooo... You might fuck yourself trying to counter a Yorick top who actually turns out to be the GP you thought was going to jungle. Also what the heck. Alistar isn't even the best support for Vayne. I would prefer the Janna because I've played with a rather excellent one in Mowen. If you think Graves doesn't need a specific kind of team comp, or at the very least fill a very specific role, you're wrong. Graves's right click is tame in comparison to most AD carries. His damage comes from front loaded burst. The result? Graves counters squishy team comps because he's secretly half burst caster half AD carry. The other result? If a team knows this they build 150+ armor each and run 3 bruisers and Graves eats a dick and gets laughed at when his full combo deals a whopping 400 damage per target. Maybe 500 at best. So Graves is equally counterable, and the difference is that nothing your team can do will make that any different. The counter to Graves is absolute and final. Yet, Vayne is always Vayne. If you fuck up 1 fight she might kill everything. [quote=Luther3000] Kog'Maw, Ashe off the top of my head. Vayne has a short distance low cooldown blink with stealth on it, and she can knock back one person chasing her. [/quote] Yes they both need more protection and both deal less damage now :O[/quote]

[quote=Joobieo#41288][quote=DuffTime] Yorick can support fairly well. Soooo... Also what the heck. Alistar isn't even the best support for Vayne. I would prefer the Janna because I've played with a rather excellent one in Mowen. If you think Graves doesn't need a specific kind of team comp, or at the very least fill a very specific role, you're wrong. Graves's right click is tame in comparison to most AD carries. His damage comes from front loaded burst. The result? Graves counters squishy team comps because he's secretly half burst caster half AD carry. The other result? If a team knows this they build 150+ armor each and run 3 bruisers and Graves eats a dick and gets laughed at when his full combo deals a whopping 400 damage per target. Maybe 500 at best. So Graves is equally counterable, and the difference is that nothing your team can do will make that any different. The counter to Graves is absolute and final. Yet, Vayne is always Vayne. If you fuck up 1 fight she might kill everything. [/quote] Taric + Vayne = gg. I've only lost one lanning phase when I was Taric and I had a good vayne other than that its been gg everytime.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Taric vayne is solid too. It gives Vayne a set up, a heal bot, and some armor to go aggro, with the potential for more burst.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden]hmm.. u might have a point in the graves being counterable. (never thought of it that way though. yet the last part stands for other AA'ers as well) I prefer alistar support with a vayne, since as Alistar vayne's mid game strength won't get as utilised and she only has 1 movement displacer on a 100 second'ish cooldown. And also leave the bot lane a much easier target for ganks afterwards. If a alistar engage fails, u can try again 10 sec later. And i've only seen one person going support yorick on a semi-competitive scene(elementz with a bot vayne at the qualifiers for some tourney) never on the competitive though. Since that he doesn't have a shield nor does he have a heal, so vayne's weak early game will be even weaker and more endangered.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=Joobieo] [quote=DuffTime] Yorick can support fairly well. Soooo... Also what the heck. Alistar isn't even the best support for Vayne. I would prefer the Janna because I've played with a rather excellent one in Mowen. If you think Graves doesn't need a specific kind of team comp, or at the very least fill a very specific role, you're wrong. Graves's right click is tame in comparison to most AD carries. His damage comes from front loaded burst. The result? Graves counters squishy team comps because he's secretly half burst caster half AD carry. The other result? If a team knows this they build 150+ armor each and run 3 bruisers and Graves eats a dick and gets laughed at when his full combo deals a whopping 400 damage per target. Maybe 500 at best. So Graves is equally counterable, and the difference is that nothing your team can do will make that any different. The counter to Graves is absolute and final. Yet, Vayne is always Vayne. If you fuck up 1 fight she might kill everything. [/quote] Taric + Vayne = gg. I've only lost one lanning phase when I was Taric and I had a good vayne other than that its been gg everytime. [/quote] taric's late game protection is pretty meeh on a squishy low-range like vayne.[/quote]