Upcoming Zyra nerfs

[quote=Wayne3100]"As Morello mentioned in an early post, [[Zyra]] is a wee bit strong at the moment. This post summarizes our plant to address that. The following changes will be deployed in a hotfix as soon as this evening on North America. [center][b]I. Summary[/b][/center] We're going to be making some changes to [[Zyra]] designed to tone her down in some respects while leaving what we see as her core play pattern intact. I'll first list the nerfs and then discuss our reasoning for them: [list][*]Base movement speed reduced to 300 (from 310) [*]When multiple plants attack the same target, additional plants deal 50% damage (from 75% damage) [*][[Grasping Roots]] (E) damage per level decreased to 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (from 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240) [*][[Stranglethorns]] damage reduced to 180 / 265 / 350 (from 200 / 300 / 400) [*][[Stranglethorns]] cast range reduced to 700 (from 800)[/list] That's a lot of changes, and some big ones at that. We're confident that they leave her in a good spot though. [[Zyra]]'s two major issues are that she is too bursty and too safe. This makes her hard to exploit. Enemies are having a hard time catching her, and when they do, they get blown up before they can output their damage. It gets worse: [[Zyra]]'s burst comes from her base damages, so she can build defensive items to live through enemies that make it through her zone of control. [center][b]II. Safety changes[/b][/center] Before I begin, note that we are primarily hitting particular play patterns. If you weren’t doing phenomenally with [[Zyra]], you were probably were not “abusing” her kiting or burst combo potential fully. I have good news for you -- these changes will barely effect your damage output and survivability. If you were dominating with [[Zyra]], sorry these nerfs will sting a bit and you’ll have to work harder for wins. [[Zyra]] still has a lot of great matchups mid, she just has some actual bad/even ones now. In particular, she’ll have a tough time dealing with assassins (e.g., [[Fizz]], [[Katarina]]), and an even to slightly unfavorable matchup against highly mobile casters, and enemies that excel at killing plants quickly ([[Ahri]] falls into both camps). [list][*]Base movement speed reduced to 300 (from 310)[/list] [[Zyra]] is an impressive zone controller. Her plants, the fact that E is less dodgeable close, and her ult all give her powerful control over a pre-defined space. This change brings her in line with our other potent zone control mages -- [[Heimerdinger]], [[Orianna]], and [[Anivia]]. It means that if you catch her out of her zone (or she over-extends her zone and you can quickly dash through it), you have an easier time reaching her before her cooldowns come back up. Note that [[Zyra]] still has the tools to stay safe in lane and team fights through her root+slow; it's now just a meaningful cost to put those spells on cooldown. We were concerned about [[Zyra]] losing too much map mobility, but this turned out to be false. Small changes to base movement speed are incredibly impactful when chasing or fleeing ([[Brand]] now catches up to [[Zyra]] 200% faster) but relatively minimal when traversing long distances, such as to gank bot from mid (Boots 2 [[Zyra]] reaches another lane 2.7% more slowly). [list][*][[Stranglethorns]] cast range reduced to 700 (from 800)[/list] Again, this change is designed to make [[Zyra]] less safe -- or rather to make [[Zyra]] choose between safety and power. 700 range is identical to [[Vladimir]] ult, which I am sure our [[Vladimir]] players will note is not especially large. For you math nerds, this is a 23.5% reduction in the total area in which the ult can be cast. Since [[Stranglethorns]] itself has a large radius, [[Zyra]] will still be able to hit a high priority target with the initial damage most of the time, but she won't be able to drop that perfectly positioned ult on all 5 of her enemies without wading dangerously close to the center of a fight. A related change we released last Wednesday is that [[Zyra]]'s ult damage expands slightly slower (0.2 seconds longer to outside of the effect). Combined, this means that enemies are both more likely to be near the outside of her ult ring and are more able to run out of it if they are on the ball. Enemies at the center still are virtually guaranteed to take damage, but [[Zyra]] has to put herself at greater risk to get them there. [center][b]III. Burst changes[/b][/center] The remaining changes are all targeting one thing: burst. [[Zyra]]s on Live are simply doing too much damage in too short a window. I'm not opposed to burst mages, but [[Zyra]] to me is a much richer experience as a sustained damage mage who uses plants and moderate cooldown skillshots to whittle down an enemy over the course of an engagement. Note that we've primarily hit [[Zyra]]'s base damages here, not her ratios. If [[Zyra]] wants to build glass cannon (say, [[Deathfire Grasp]] + [[Rabadon's Deathcap]]), she'll be pretty bursty. If she wants to build tanky (say, [[Abyssal Scepter]] + [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]] + [[Zhonya's Hourglass]]), her damage per second will suffer, but she will hopefully live long enough to deal a net greater amount of it overall. [list][*][[Grasping Roots]] (E) damage per level decreased to 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (from 60 / 105 / 150 / 195 / 240)[/list] We needed to take damage from somewhere and, looking across her kit, the rank up on this skill was just too generous. Not only were [[Zyra]]s getting an increase in the duration of their primary CC, but they were also getting more damage from a spell combo (e.g., EWQ) by ranking E over Q. Now choosing to level up E less damage but more control compared to Q. [list][*]When multiple plants attack the same target, additional plants deal 50% damage (from 75% damage) -- a 14% nerf to the plant damage done when comboing two.[/list] This is a sizeable hit to those of you who were playing [[Zyra]] as a combo caster (EWQW, EWWQ, EQWW), unloading on the enemy all at once. The problem is that this combo casting strategy was pretty much always optimal. Now, you'll frequently still want to execute those combos, but by choosing to compress your damage into a small window, perhaps against a juicy 50% health target you catch in a root, you'll be sacrificing a greater amount of sustained damage. We think this adds more strategic depth to her gameplay: [[Zyra]]s will have to balance sustained harass against combo play. The result is we anticipate more [[Zyra]] players will adopt a "1.9 seed" gameplay, where they are constantly managing their seed resource to have 1 available for emergencies but not sit at the seed cap. On Live, I frequently just sit on two seeds so that I can be sure to burst someone if I land a random E or they go aggressive on me. A cool result of this change is that it makes the combo of spawning one Vine Lasher and one Thorn Spitter even better than two of one plant -- the enemy will take extra hits while slowed and then, once out of the Vine Lasher range, will take full damage from the Thorn Spitter since only one plant is attacking. I know it sounds a bit silly to say that we are giving you more options by nerfing your champ. And that would be silly. My point is that while we are nerfing a certain playstyle pretty hard (burst mage), [[Zyra]] has alternate play patterns to fall back on that are still powerful. If we nerfed [[Garen]]'s Spin to Win, for example, the dude lacks a fallback play pattern and so he would be crippled. When we nerfed [[Amumu]]’s AP ratios, it didn’t hit him that hard because he could replace some AP itemization with tanky gear and deal the same damage, but over time. [[Zyra]] is in the later position. [list][*][[Stranglethorns]] damage reduced to 180 / 265 / 350 (from 200 / 300 / 400)[/list] We wanted to shift the focus of [[Stranglethorns]] damage from the up front damage to the plant damage [[Zyra]] gets from proper ult positioning. You'll still chunk people with this ability, but now the game is about keeping a wounded enemy in range of your enraged plants and the knock up zone. At the same time, we thought that [[Zyra]] needed some form of guaranteed damage. If you point blank ult a person (with it on their zero point), they will take a substantial amount of damage, unlike the rest of her kit which is all delayed skillshots. [center][b]IV. Future changes[/b][/center] We have a few quality of life changes slated for the next patch that were deemed inappropriate for a hotfix. For example, we’ll be slightly increasing the size of her plant’s hit boxes to make them easier to right click, re-coloring the [[Grasping Roots]] missile so it stands out a little better, and making her passive form feel more responsive for [[Zyra]] players." ----- Source: [list][*]http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/21189-upcoming-zyra-changes [*]http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=8331242 [/list][/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]As for my personal thoughts, I think nerfing her plant and E damage is a good move (the damage of [[Deadly Bloom]] will still be really good) and I understand the range reduce on her ult (that was just too big), but I don't fully agree that she was (or still is right now, I should say) too safe, especially not in teamfights. Going from a more bursty mage to one that deals sustained damage will result in her ending up doing little in a teamfight if an assassin like [[Akali]] jumps on her right at the start. That worries me a little bit, but overall I think she should be fine. She was not impossible to lane against in her "current form", her snare has a long range but it's also easily avoided. I think [[Orianna]], [[Gragas]] (once he gets some levels), [[Morgana]], [[Ahri]] and [[Ziggs]] are all fine against her while [[Leblanc]] and [[Fizz]] are two champions that can even destroy her if played correctly. I wonder how these changes will affect that.[/quote]

[quote=Rzarector]i like those changes, especially the plant nerf, those things are enoying[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu]Thank god I didn't buy her! Quite big nerfs, but I guess they are needed. Especially the plants damage is ridicilouse.[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]She was needing this, although it's going to hurt. I assume Zyra players will now be forced to play smarter than before, and she'll go to the attractiveness level of [[Orianna]], meaning she'll be great for people who invest in knowing how to use her and manage her kit and cooldowns.[/quote]

[quote=Xenotechie][quote=FalseoGod] She was needing this, although it's going to hurt. I assume Zyra players will now be forced to play smarter than before, and she'll go to the attractiveness level of [[Orianna]], meaning she'll be great for people who invest in knowing how to use her and manage her kit and cooldowns. [/quote] Dude, you pretty much stole the words from my mouth. The nerfs pretty much hit the sweet spot of her base burst damage, and force her to rely on her plants for a more sustained type of damage. She'll be hard, but awesome if properly used.[/quote]

[quote=A Chubby Baby]yea. expected this anyways.[/quote]

[quote=Phil15]Ya that was for sure she was in an other tier than each Ap but she will be still pretty strong even after those nerfs[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]necessary nerfs, probably more that are going to be necessary even after these[/quote]

[quote=The Overmyynd]I think they really really need to work on the target prioritizing system for her plants. I could have two plants down in the middle of a creep wave, enemy champion sitting right between them, and the plants don't attack him, but the creeps. Does anyone else have this issue? Because i think this is whack. Imagine if [[yorick]]'s ghouls just randomly attacked targets? His power in lane would be severely hurt.[/quote]