As for my personal thoughts, I think nerfing her plant and E damage is a good move (the damage of Deadly Bloom will still be really good) and I understand the range reduce on her ult (that was just too big), but I don't fully agree that she was (or still is right now, I should say) too safe, especially not in teamfights. Going from a more bursty mage to one that deals sustained damage will result in her ending up doing little in a teamfight if an assassin like Akali jumps on her right at the start. That worries me a little bit, but overall I think she should be fine.
She was not impossible to lane against in her "current form", her snare has a long range but it's also easily avoided. I think Orianna, Gragas (once he gets some levels), Morgana, Ahri and Ziggs are all fine against her while LeBlanc and Fizz are two champions that can even destroy her if played correctly. I wonder how these changes will affect that.
She was not impossible to lane against in her "current form", her snare has a long range but it's also easily avoided. I think Orianna, Gragas (once he gets some levels), Morgana, Ahri and Ziggs are all fine against her while LeBlanc and Fizz are two champions that can even destroy her if played correctly. I wonder how these changes will affect that.
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Thank god I didn't buy her!
Quite big nerfs, but I guess they are needed. Especially the plants damage is ridicilouse.
Quite big nerfs, but I guess they are needed. Especially the plants damage is ridicilouse.
She was needing this, although it's going to hurt. I assume Zyra players will now be forced to play smarter than before, and she'll go to the attractiveness level of Orianna, meaning she'll be great for people who invest in knowing how to use her and manage her kit and cooldowns.
FalseoGod wrote:
She was needing this, although it's going to hurt. I assume Zyra players will now be forced to play smarter than before, and she'll go to the attractiveness level of Orianna, meaning she'll be great for people who invest in knowing how to use her and manage her kit and cooldowns.
Dude, you pretty much stole the words from my mouth. The nerfs pretty much hit the sweet spot of her base burst damage, and force her to rely on her plants for a more sustained type of damage. She'll be hard, but awesome if properly used.
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yea. expected this anyways.
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I think they really really need to work on the target prioritizing system for her plants. I could have two plants down in the middle of a creep wave, enemy champion sitting right between them, and the plants don't attack him, but the creeps. Does anyone else have this issue? Because i think this is whack. Imagine if Yorick's ghouls just randomly attacked targets? His power in lane would be severely hurt.
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We're going to be making some changes to Zyra designed to tone her down in some respects while leaving what we see as her core play pattern intact. I'll first list the nerfs and then discuss our reasoning for them:
That's a lot of changes, and some big ones at that. We're confident that they leave her in a good spot though. Zyra's two major issues are that she is too bursty and too safe. This makes her hard to exploit. Enemies are having a hard time catching her, and when they do, they get blown up before they can output their damage. It gets worse: Zyra's burst comes from her base damages, so she can build defensive items to live through enemies that make it through her zone of control.
Before I begin, note that we are primarily hitting particular play patterns. If you weren’t doing phenomenally with Zyra, you were probably were not “abusing” her kiting or burst combo potential fully. I have good news for you -- these changes will barely effect your damage output and survivability. If you were dominating with Zyra, sorry these nerfs will sting a bit and you’ll have to work harder for wins.
Zyra still has a lot of great matchups mid, she just has some actual bad/even ones now. In particular, she’ll have a tough time dealing with assassins (e.g., Fizz, Katarina), and an even to slightly unfavorable matchup against highly mobile casters, and enemies that excel at killing plants quickly ( Ahri falls into both camps).
We were concerned about Zyra losing too much map mobility, but this turned out to be false. Small changes to base movement speed are incredibly impactful when chasing or fleeing ( Brand now catches up to Zyra 200% faster) but relatively minimal when traversing long distances, such as to gank bot from mid (Boots 2 Zyra reaches another lane 2.7% more slowly).
A related change we released last Wednesday is that Zyra's ult damage expands slightly slower (0.2 seconds longer to outside of the effect). Combined, this means that enemies are both more likely to be near the outside of her ult ring and are more able to run out of it if they are on the ball. Enemies at the center still are virtually guaranteed to take damage, but Zyra has to put herself at greater risk to get them there.
The remaining changes are all targeting one thing: burst. Zyras on Live are simply doing too much damage in too short a window. I'm not opposed to burst mages, but Zyra to me is a much richer experience as a sustained damage mage who uses plants and moderate cooldown skillshots to whittle down an enemy over the course of an engagement. Note that we've primarily hit Zyra's base damages here, not her ratios. If Zyra wants to build glass cannon (say, Deathfire Grasp + Rabadon's Deathcap), she'll be pretty bursty. If she wants to build tanky (say, Abyssal Mask + Rylai's Crystal Scepter + Zhonya's Hourglass), her damage per second will suffer, but she will hopefully live long enough to deal a net greater amount of it overall.
We think this adds more strategic depth to her gameplay: Zyras will have to balance sustained harass against combo play. The result is we anticipate more Zyra players will adopt a "1.9 seed" gameplay, where they are constantly managing their seed resource to have 1 available for emergencies but not sit at the seed cap. On Live, I frequently just sit on two seeds so that I can be sure to burst someone if I land a random E or they go aggressive on me.
A cool result of this change is that it makes the combo of spawning one Vine Lasher and one Thorn Spitter even better than two of one plant -- the enemy will take extra hits while slowed and then, once out of the Vine Lasher range, will take full damage from the Thorn Spitter since only one plant is attacking.
I know it sounds a bit silly to say that we are giving you more options by nerfing your champ. And that would be silly. My point is that while we are nerfing a certain playstyle pretty hard (burst mage), Zyra has alternate play patterns to fall back on that are still powerful. If we nerfed Garen's Spin to Win, for example, the dude lacks a fallback play pattern and so he would be crippled. When we nerfed Amumu’s AP ratios, it didn’t hit him that hard because he could replace some AP itemization with tanky gear and deal the same damage, but over time. Zyra is in the later position.
We have a few quality of life changes slated for the next patch that were deemed inappropriate for a hotfix. For example, we’ll be slightly increasing the size of her plant’s hit boxes to make them easier to right click, re-coloring the Grasping Roots missile so it stands out a little better, and making her passive form feel more responsive for Zyra players."
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