Veteran player getting back into LoL S3, what...

[quote=Bioalchemist]this debate has occurred so many times its stupid. runaan's sucks 95% of the time compared to other items you can put in that slot...so dumb...math doesn't always translate into game success because it always suggests a perfect scenario...kinda like ideal gas laws...but yeah go ahead and use it. [quote=xIchi] Reading this thread made me remember the 'Mybloodisblack'-threads. It is literally the same, OP asks for help people offer help. the help people offered does not fit the theory craft of OP OP thinks his theorycraft is really, really, really, super, dupa, pro, 1337. OP bashes all the help that does not fit with his theorycraft OP continues to try and counter 'empty statements, asking for math' -why doesn't op do some math himself and see that Hurricane is horrible and only for 25% srs games? [/quote] lol right? i have seen this so many times on mobafire. so funny.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=Luther3000] I saw the part where you called me stupid before editing it out. I'm done trying to help here, have fun being trash buddy.[/quote] Correction, I called your comparison terrible and asked if you realized how stupid you looked. I think this deserves a more thorough explanation though so I'm making a separate comment about it: [quote=Luther3000] Caitlyn's passive is 150% normal damage, a crit with IE is 250%. Which would you rather have every 2 attacks?[/quote] Invalid comparison. You're doing almost the same thing as tehAsian. You're taking one specific part of an item that does not directly correlate to damage and compare it with a part of another item that directly correlates to damage. I was gonna use my previous example again, but it doesn't fit as well as I thought it would :( So I'm gonna try my hand at a new one: It's like comparing the AD of Infinity Edge with the movement speed on Phantom Dancer. The MS can increase your damage by allowing you to chase your enemies more effectively and stay alive better, but is there a direct correlation? Not even close.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian]It's not that we're doing invalid comparisons, we're comparing the use of Runaans in an ADC build compared to other viable options while you think we're comparing Runaans to other items.[/quote]

[quote=Pheyniex][quote=Searz] You're taking one specific part of an item that does not directly correlate to damage and compare it with a part of another item that directly correlates to damage. [/quote] it does, but your unnaproval of a random-oriented stat is shadowing your judgement.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=tehAsian] It's not that we're doing invalid comparisons, we're comparing the use of Runaans in an ADC build compared to other viable options while you think we're comparing Runaans to other items.[/quote] Now you kind of seem to get it. I know that's what you're trying to do, but that's exactly what I'm saying is a bad way of comparing things. I'm saying we should compare entire builds, tailored around specific items (in this case IE and RH), not specific items in a build clearly tailored around one of the two items. To further clarify and avoid confusion: We should compare an AD build with Hurricane with a crit build with IE.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Searz] Valid point. I'm inclined to agree that you need the MS to some extent. There are other MS items though. And who says that these items are mutually exclusive? I've been saying that they're not for a while now.. [/quote] What exactly would you trade the [[runaan's hurricane]] for instead? Yeah, exactly. There's nothing else to trade it for. [quote=Searz] Nonono, I dislike crit as a MECHANIC, that has nothing to do with what items I build. Crit is an incredibly useful tool for increasing your damage in LoL, which is why I'd build it on pretty much every AD carry in the game. Don't make assumptions. [/quote] I don't think it was an unfair assumption, given that you built exactly 0 crit items and went with the most questionable build in existence. Who knows what other silly things you might be thinking? But seriously, what pro has ever built [[runaan's hurricane]] in a serious game and used it with consistent success? I have never ever seen a serious high-level game with [[caitlyn]] build a [[runaan's hurricane]]. Actually, I have never ever seen a [[runaan's hurricane]] built, end of. You can do the maths all you want, but it's not going to add up to Challenger.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=xIchi] Reading this thread made me remember the 'Mybloodisblack'-threads. It is literally the same, OP asks for help people offer help. the help people offered does not fit the theory craft of OP OP thinks his theorycraft is really, really, really, super, dupa, pro, 1337. OP bashes all the help that does not fit with his theorycraft OP continues to try and counter 'empty statements, asking for math' -why doesn't op do some math himself and see that Hurricane is horrible and only for 25% srs games?[/quote] Nope. Aside from the first two points it's not even close. I think the Hurricane is quite literally the only part I've directly disagreed with others on. Did you already forget about all the other tips I got? I will [b]yet again[/b] (since nobody seems to remember this part) write that [b]I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WORKS BETTER, BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO DO[/b]. ('this' refers to the use of Hurricane+AD items without crit) I'd LOVE to be proven wrong through the use of math, reason and logic, but the problem is that most comments instead use broken logic or extreme exaggerations.. I should probably just try to do some math myself. I'll see if I can come up with something later. (I'm serious) [quote=Bioalchemist] math doesn't always translate into game success because it always suggests a perfect scenario...kinda like ideal gas laws...[/quote] Valid point, but it does give an idea, and if you calculated both best and worst-case scenarios then you can likely draw a pretty solid conclusion from that. [quote]lol right? i have seen this so many times on mobafire. so funny.[/quote] Wow, please try to refrain from comparing me with that guy... I thought you knew me better.. [quote=The_Nameless_Bard] Am I the only person enjoying how ironic this is? or are most of these people too new to remember s1 theory crafting subforum?[/quote] Don't worry. I'm well aware of what you think is irony. I am however sad for your sake that you don't understand the difference between AD Annie and an analysis of the usefulness of [[Runaan's Hurricane]] (on Caitlyn specifically). I mean, fuck, the people in that forum were actually saying "Hey, Annie has a ranged attack, so why not build AD?".. So no, I have no problem debunking stupid crap and I never have had, but I also have no problem trying different things. I'm not sure if you know of this, but I was one of the first (and possibly only) people that played Urgot as a tanky DPS in mid/top. It was definitely viable, people just had the problem of trying to pigeon-hole him into the role of an AD carry despite the fact that many of his abilities clearly weren't suited for such a role. I was also one of the first to point out the greatness of AD quintessences. The almost universal consensus before AD marks were buffed was that all AD runes sucked, but after that buff people started to get around to the fact that AD quints weren't actually bad at all, [b]despite the fact that AD quints were never buffed[/b] (only the marks were). Bottom line: there's a difference between creative stupidity and creative thinking.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Why should we have to compare them at all? A quick look into why no one uses [[Runaan's Hurricane]] would tell you it's simply unreliable at the one thing it's even good for. >.> At low elos it can work because people like bunch up and I guess then it would be a good purchase. But the way I see it, at most the closest thing to you as an AD carry will be a tank or a fighter, and generally there will not be another target close enough to make use of it's passive, making it moot for anything but AtSpeed. Maybe if you're getting focused by multiple melee characters, but then you'd rather have a defensive item to live rather than trying to grind them down, and the passive isn't making killing 2+ melee characters any easier, let's be fair. TL;DR: Hurricane is unreliable Hurricane is only decent when people bunch up Hurricane is good at dealing damage when multiple melees crowd you, but you're dead at that point anyway[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]I used to play [[Varus]] with a [[The Bloodthirster]] + [[Runaan's Hurricane]] + [[Last Whisper]] build (with the idea behind it being that Blight stacks apply on all 3 attacks), early in the season. It felt pretty strong to me back then and I remember talking about it to astrolia who did something similar for fun, but whether it was/is actually good? Dunno, just figured I'd throw it out there while you guys are discussing it anyway.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=Searz] [b]I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WORKS BETTER, BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO DO[/b]. ('this' refers to the use of Hurricane+AD items without crit) [/quote] We already told you the answer. It has no potential. Been tried and tested and failed.[/quote]