Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Dune0z]Love seeing this thread back in action, I hope everyone can disregard my last post about some silly "Scaling Nami" build. I had only brought up the question because I saw a High-plat player dominating with a tear/mejais build. Though that was probably more due to his Macro plays, I forgot the name of the player too. Damn.[/quote] Yes, you can get any rating you like except perhaps challenger with a sub-optimal build, as long as you know how to play the champion and your specific build/playstyle well. I.e. full AP Nami is a sub-optimal playstyle but can work if you can deal with it's inherent weaknesses. There are much more variables than build so you can't just say "player X did well with build A, therefore build A has to be good". It is a very commonly made mistake under League players so don't worry too much about it. [quote]Anyways, I look forward to learning more about the Support role from you all! Quick Question: Is Zekes still a good second/third item on Nami vs 3/4 Ad comps, Or is there stronger picks than that?[/quote] Zeke's is a bit mediocre right now, and I think because of two reasons: 1. The item itself got nerfed and is much more difficult to proc right now, making it unreliable 2. ADC itemisation is in a very awkward state for the item to work well. Carries like Lucian go for a build that doesn't include crit items any more (perhaps until very late game) and others get 3 crit items (2 attack speed/crit items like PD, Shiv, Rapid Firecannon) that pushes them to 70% crit, making zeke's weeaker. If you happen to have an ADC that does go for a crit-centred build but does not exceed 50-60% crit, it is still a decent item (although other items like Locket/mikaels etc are still higher on the priority list depending on the situation). I would not get it 2nd because of that, but may be worth considering later on. [quote=MungoGeri][quote=Vynertje]Your calculations are kinda useless because you took level 18 as starting point. For a support in mid-game, it's much better to take something like level 10-13. As a support I hit level 18 in perhaps 1 out of 20 games. On topic: I kind of agree warmogs is a great item (used it a few times myself too) but it requires you to finish 2 items rather than one before it is useful. It's decent as 4th item or later, but before that it's pretty meh. I do prefer it over Rabadons as it is just as mediocre as a standalone item and costs way to much for a support.[/quote] The context of the conversation was that we were talking about a 6th item on a support, which is a situation that is rare indeed. However, in those rare situations, you will likely be level 18 or close to it. Neither of us were talking about getting [[warmog's armor]] as the 3rd or 4th item. Or [[rabadon's deathcap]] for that matter.[/quote] Apologies, I misread. I probably wouldn't get either as 6th. Rabadons is not particularly gold effective unless you go for a full-AP build (which is too expensive) and I think Warmogs is good to get, but if you want to go that route I'd get it before 6th. In general, 6th item for supports/tanks etc. is 100% situational and you can't say what is best in advance. I would add Guardian Angel as a decent defensive option though, makes it a lot tougher to run you down. Considering Raka's main counterplay is to kill her first, it puts you in a very difficult position: kill raka once and be stuk in the middle of the fight.[/quote]

[quote=EricboyZ]Yo guys! i have 2 questions: Question 1. : 9 out of 10 times i roam my adc pushes lane and dies. Before i roam i say to him always: 'Stay back and 'dont push,im roaming' so how could i prevent this? I myself thought by choosing better times to roam. So, What are good times to roam? Question 2. : I feel like when i play with my higher elo friends ( higher elo than me) im gold 4 and they are plat 1/2/3 i play mutch better than when im with ppl from my own elo. Any idea why? I think maybe because i feel like i have to play well but i dont know. Thanks in advance! Greetings, Eric[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=EricboyZ]Yo guys! i have 2 questions: Question 1. : 9 out of 10 times i roam my adc pushes lane and dies. Before i roam i say to him always: 'Stay back and 'dont push,im roaming' so how could i prevent this? I myself thought by choosing better times to roam. So, What are good times to roam? [/quote] It's all about wave control, knowing when a wave is pushing and when it's being pushed. Basically, if you leave your ADC when the wave is pushing towards the enemy, he will have to overextend to get CS (the proper play would be to leave the CS, but people greed and die everywhere). Therefore, the optimal moment to roam is directly after you have pushed bot wave up quickly. This means the enemy bot is still clearing their wave (makes sure they cannot follow you) and your ADC has no wave to kill for a short while. Generally, if you pushed it up correctly the wave will reset in roughly one or two waves (1 minute), so that gives you a small window to roam. [quote]Question 2. : I feel like when i play with my higher elo friends ( higher elo than me) im gold 4 and they are plat 1/2/3 i play mutch better than when im with ppl from my own elo. Any idea why? I think maybe because i feel like i have to play well but i dont know. Thanks in advance! Greetings, Eric[/quote] I honestly can't say. If you're playing support you might just get carried by your premade ADC or that you're getting caught out less because they are making some of the calls for you, allowing you to focus on mechanical play only.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Honestly question 2 is linked to question 1 I think. Higher Elo players tend to understand the motives begins your actions and pay accordingly, whereas a lower Elo player may not fully understand what you're doing and may be more likely to make an inaccurate move[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=utopus]Honestly question 2 is linked to question 1 I think. Higher Elo players tend to understand the motives begins your actions and pay accordingly, whereas a lower Elo player may not fully understand what you're doing and may be more likely to make an inaccurate move[/quote] That is definitely the case, yes. Most people simply play off of experience and muscle memory, whereas actual good players (and I'm talking about master/challengers here) actually thoroughly understand the motives behind each move and can adapt accordingly on the fly. On a side note, there still exists a large gap between understanding something decently well and also being able to make these split-second decisions based on what you already know and understand. I think 90% of the reason I'm chilling in lowly D4 atm and not back in my S5 form is because I understand everything but am not good enough to adapt on the fly, resulting in unnecessary mistakes and wrong calls. I'm slowly improving as I've had time to play again during my holidays, but still not what I used to be sadly.[/quote]

[quote=Eistod]Do you know why Eye of Equinox does not give any cdr while every other Eye gives cdr? Is it suposed to be that way? D:[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Eistod]Do you know why Eye of Equinox does not give any cdr while every other Eye gives cdr? Is it suposed to be that way? D:[/quote] Riot's reasoning was that back when [[frost queen's claim]] and [[talisman of ascension]] were much better than their Eye equivalents, the purchase and win rates for [[eye of the equinox]] and [[face of the mountain]] were roughly the same. Therefore, they decided to only buff the two others while leaving [[eye of the equinox]] unchanged.[/quote]

[quote=Quite Nomible]is grasp of undying keystone still worth it?[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=Quite Nomible]is grasp of undying keystone still worth it?[/quote] For what champion?[/quote]

[quote=Quite Nomible][quote=Vynertje][quote=Quite Nomible]is grasp of undying keystone still worth it?[/quote] For what champion?[/quote] in general. after the last change to it I have no idea what champions are actually good with it.[/quote]