PsiGuard wrote:
people would only look at that guide and upvote it even if it was terrible.
If you don't like the system, be specific about what's wrong.
If you don't like the system, be specific about what's wrong.
You're saying people's votes are...wrong? That's not something you can control.
The new system appears to give no regard to the hundreds of prior votes that were accumulated. No one should be on the top of the rankings with a handful of votes. The room for error here is much higher than the prior system.
Possible fix: Give badges or honors to guides that held the top/top several champion spots the longest during a season using old voting rules. Erase those votes at the beginning of new season. Users can see guides that held good standing from prior, but won't necessarily put them at the highest ranking during the new season.
NateKiller wrote:
C'mon Wayne, Ray Charles could see these rankings aren't accurate. Why, in your opinion, is it better?
Just to be clear, I was comparing the two systems based on the idea behind it, not on the actual implementation. As I said in my previous post, there's a lot to tweak and I'm not saying the way it is currently done is perfect.
I could elaborate on why I think the old system (in which individual votes had less of an impact) was so much worse, but I feel like Falseo and Psi covered that for me already. I'd go as far as to say that getting rid of the old scoring system was the best decision the devs of MOBAFire have ever made though.
PsiGuard wrote:
MOBAFire's old guide ranking system is part of the reason we had a bad reputation on other sites. Before the more flexible guide scores, scouting, freshness and verification system for authors, it was very common for a #1 guide to stay at the top indefinitely simply because people would only look at that guide and upvote it even if it was terrible.
I was the author of the #1 Alistar guide when I first joined the site and my guide sucked. It improved over time thanks to the help of some of you people but it didn't really matter. Nothing could possibly remove it from the top spot.
The new system might have a few hiccups but in general you'll see good guides go to the top, bad guides eventually get dropped in ratings, and outdated guides have less priority in searches.
If you don't like the system, be specific about what's wrong and offer suggestions about what should be changed. A few of the posts in this thread have done that but a whole page of "yeah the guide system sucks" comments really don't help at all.
I mentioned in the second page what the problem was, I'll repeat it here.
IMO the system is being waaaay too easily influenced by your most recent votes as opposed to your votes as a whole. I get that the whole point of that change a while back was to make it so that it was actually possible to dethrone top rated guides, but I think we need to find more of a balance. Quite a lot of high rated guides right now are literally just brand new guides.
The idea of the change to the system we have now was on the right track. It did fix the problem of the old ranking system, but now we have the exact opposite problem; any guide can be dethroned in no time at all. You could go round asking all your friends to make an account and upvote your guide, and you'll have the top rated guide for that champion.
It needs to be changed in some way that yeah, top rated guides aren't basically set to be top rated for life; but also that new guides aren't so heavily influenced by just a few votes.
NateKiller wrote:
You're saying people's votes are...wrong? That's not something you can control.
The new system appears to give no regard to the hundreds of prior votes that were accumulated. No one should be on the top of the rankings with a handful of votes. The room for error here is much higher than the prior system.
That's true, but we are playing a game with an ever-changing meta; facts change, the validity of an opinion changes, and so much more to go with that; a guide that's good right now might not be good any more in two weeks, let alone in a year!
The guide system, should, honestly, in my opinion, be tied to actual League of Legends patches; people should be forced to update certain things if any of their content got at least affected directly by the latest patch, however that would be a very time-consuming system and I doubt MOBAFire will ever feel the need to spend time and resources on that project. Although, I must add, I am willing to lend my hand with any system if needed.
In the end, I think the current system is pretty terrible; it feels utterly pointless, but at the same time, it is a lot better than what it once was; Gunblade Karthus anyone?
I kinda like the new system or I guess I should say I have accepted the new system.
It has done the job of keeping outdated and forever #1 guides vulnerable to public opinion again pretty well. Some of the #1 guides are still there due montly sheep votes and there are few #1 with outdated content (User just presses update button to keep the guide "fresh") but overall I feel like there is a lot less.
Something to consider is the balance of current guide rating % and newly casted votes I'd say. Let me demonstrate:
I don't really know how to explain my point here but like the voting decay time could be little bit higher and it probably shouldn't affect this much that 4 votes on a guide could surpass everyone else that fast.
The above image is a pretty good example how new guides get publicity. I don't get how the new system would hold you from making guides and them not getting enough publicity. I liked the front page "new guides" too but you can pretty much get to top 3 guides by having ~5 upvotes which is pretty common for a good new guide with the new system.
I think the general opinion is that the old system was better but the new system allows #1 to be constested again and it keeps outdated guides away from top lists.
It has done the job of keeping outdated and forever #1 guides vulnerable to public opinion again pretty well. Some of the #1 guides are still there due montly sheep votes and there are few #1 with outdated content (User just presses update button to keep the guide "fresh") but overall I feel like there is a lot less.
Something to consider is the balance of current guide rating % and newly casted votes I'd say. Let me demonstrate:
I don't really know how to explain my point here but like the voting decay time could be little bit higher and it probably shouldn't affect this much that 4 votes on a guide could surpass everyone else that fast.
The above image is a pretty good example how new guides get publicity. I don't get how the new system would hold you from making guides and them not getting enough publicity. I liked the front page "new guides" too but you can pretty much get to top 3 guides by having ~5 upvotes which is pretty common for a good new guide with the new system.
I think the general opinion is that the old system was better but the new system allows #1 to be constested again and it keeps outdated guides away from top lists.
"A person giving you advice isn't perfect and has their own shortcomings but they may give you the piece that you're missing."
Vapora Dark wrote:
I mentioned in the second page what the problem was, I'll repeat it here.
IMO the system is being waaaay too easily influenced by your most recent votes as opposed to your votes as a whole. I get that the whole point of that change a while back was to make it so that it was actually possible to dethrone top rated guides, but I think we need to find more of a balance. Quite a lot of high rated guides right now are literally just brand new guides.
The idea of the change to the system we have now was on the right track. It did fix the problem of the old ranking system, but now we have the exact opposite problem; any guide can be dethroned in no time at all. You could go round asking all your friends to make an account and upvote your guide, and you'll have the top rated guide for that champion.
It needs to be changed in some way that yeah, top rated guides aren't basically set to be top rated for life; but also that new guides aren't so heavily influenced by just a few votes.
This is a good sum up.
In addition, no matter how good a Guide is: If a recent vote has that much power, any guide will be deprecated sooner or later due to the same users voting other guides of the same champion. Two guides may be equal, but the most recent one will be scored higher because the vote will be more recent.
I also love reviewing guides, but this system makes me stop wanting to review new ones, since voting brand new guides may destroy my own guides/effort!
This need a fix for sure. The best solution IMO would be to implement few variables to the rating system (Overall Votes, recent votes, Content Length, last update..) to make the guide lists.
Of course new votes are important, but c'mon, Ultra In-Dept/Updated/Detailed/Layout/experienced guides with million views and hundreds of votes are in the position 15th, while Troll builds with 100 views and 2 votes are scored as a Top Guide on the website. This is damaging the website a lot!
... And the user experience! :)
PD: And yes! Please, let's implement the new guides Tab again.
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C'mon Wayne, Ray Charles could see these rankings aren't accurate. Why, in your opinion, is it better?
MOBAFire's old guide ranking system is part of the reason we had a bad reputation on other sites. Before the more flexible guide scores, scouting, freshness and verification system for authors, it was very common for a #1 guide to stay at the top indefinitely simply because people would only look at that guide and upvote it even if it was terrible.
I was the author of the #1 Alistar guide when I first joined the site and my guide sucked. It improved over time thanks to the help of some of you people but it didn't really matter. Nothing could possibly remove it from the top spot.
The new system might have a few hiccups but in general you'll see good guides go to the top, bad guides eventually get dropped in ratings, and outdated guides have less priority in searches.
If you don't like the system, be specific about what's wrong and offer suggestions about what should be changed. A few of the posts in this thread have done that but a whole page of "yeah the guide system sucks" comments really don't help at all.