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The MOBAFire voting system is broken; A...

Creator: Vapora Dark August 27, 2017 3:42am
Is the voting system broken?
Janitsu
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Guest voting sounds like a great idea that I'd like to see implemented on the other MobaFire Network sites. Currently, the amount of voters we have isn't enough to sustain a site as big as MobaFire and we can't really have any standards if we don't have enough people telling us what they like and what they think works. The only issues that (as far as I am concerned) can raise from this are problems with guests voting for their friends, again a big issue. Though I don't think it will change the situation drastically from the current situation since many friends that you'd ask to upvote are quite likely willing to make an account in the first place and when they have that account, they don't really need to go through all that hassle.

I'd implement a system that asks whether the voter wants to make a profile after they have voted on 3 guides (or similar). That could increase the amount of somewhat active members (voters, not commenters) and it wouldn't be so intrusive that people would get bothered by it.

Thanks to OwenTheAwesomer for the signature =)
jhoijhoi
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^What a great idea, Jan - the "would you like to make a profile".

I think voting is silly and the mindset should be changed.

If you instead think of it as "liking" and "disliking", then it really doesn't matter. If you think of it as "voting", it matters too much. We're not trying to pass a motion to legalise marijuana - you're just saying whether or not you like a guide.

I feel like people would be more likely to comment and vote if the system was more like Facebook or other sites that allow you to freely vote and comment without really worrying about repercussions or hurting someone's feelings.

With that in mind, C2V should be removed too. As you said, C2V has prevented 72% possible upvotes.
PsiGuard
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jhoijhoi wrote:
I feel like people would be more likely to comment and vote if the system was more like Facebook or other sites that allow you to freely vote and comment without really worrying about repercussions or hurting someone's feelings.

Ideally that would be good, but generally authors are pretty sensitive about criticism of their work. Not something we can really do systemically to change that. :/

jhoijhoi wrote:
With that in mind, C2V should be removed too. As you said, C2V has prevented 72% possible upvotes.

I agree.
Thanks to Nyoike for the sig!
The_Nameless_Bard
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I feel like it probably prevents just as many downvotes, perhaps more, since you risk revenge downvotes if you downvote someone's guide when comment to vote is up. I have been more often deterred from downvoting than upvoting by comment to vote.

I also feel like you should worry about getting people to vote at all before removing anything. Comment to vote isn't the problem, even once comment to vote runs out, lots of guides are receiving very few votes. Some champions/guides don't (and will never, in all likelihood) get any exposure and, until you fix that, it really doesn't matter what you do with the voting system because they won't get voted on regardless.

If you're gonna do it anyways though, all guide scores should be completely reset.
PsiGuard
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I feel like it probably prevents just as many downvotes, perhaps more, since you risk revenge downvotes if you downvote someone's guide when comment to vote is up. I have been more often deterred from downvoting than upvoting by comment to vote.

I also feel like you should worry about getting people to vote at all before removing anything. Comment to vote isn't the problem, even once comment to vote runs out, lots of guides are receiving very few votes. Some champions/guides don't (and will never, in all likelihood) get any exposure and, until you fix that, it really doesn't matter what you do with the voting system because they won't get voted on regardless.

If you're gonna do it anyways though, all guide scores should be completely reset.

PsiGuard wrote:
79% of votes lost to C2V also would have been upvotes

This means that the vast majority of people who refrain from voting due to the C2V popup were trying to upvote, meaning only 21% were attempting to downvote. If I had to guess without any data, I would have expected more downvotes to be prevented, but this isn't supported by the facts.

C2V does result in fewer votes on site. I agree that increasing voter activity overall (including past the point of C2V) is equally important. That's one of the reasons we're exploring opening voting to guests.

To be clear, one of the main reasons we're looking at guest voting first is that it's much safer. The votes will be tracked separately, so if for some reason it was a disaster, we could easily reset to our current system. If we remove C2V, however, it would be a different story. If we were to do that down the line, we'd want to be sure that it would be best for everyone.
Thanks to Jovy for the sig!
orrvaa
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The reason i joined the site is because i though that here is the best place to share strategies and the site will give the users/guests the best information by giving the best guild first.


For now the restriction for voting on guilds is being registered. So if i can ask my friends to register just for voting my guilds or even use IP hiding program or other computers just for this purpose i don't see why there should be any restriction.

I think to give an answer for this issue there should be no restrictions so the overall league of legends community will be able to vote (from low to high elo, every one), or there should be more restrictions that prevent a new member to instantly vote. For example Being registered for 2 weeks/ being active with commenting on the site/ writing a guild/ and i am sure there much better ideas then mine.
PsiGuard
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Thanks for the feedback orrvaa. I think right now the plan is to be less restrictive about voting (with enabling guest votes for example) and hopefully we can get enough overall votes that manipulation by a small amount of people would have minimal effect.

I understand why a voting lockout for a short period would make sense to deter vote manipulators, but a lot of normal people do register just to vote and comment on guides. It would be a shame to send turn new people away from voting.
Thanks to Jovy for the sig!
The_Nameless_Bard
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PsiGuard wrote:
This means that the vast majority of people who refrain from voting due to the C2V popup were trying to upvote, meaning only 21% were attempting to downvote. If I had to guess without any data, I would have expected more downvotes to be prevented, but this isn't supported by the facts.
This ignores the fact that the upvotes will (however eventually) happen anyways, even if they are from another user. Downvotes rarely happen with comment to vote at all. I understand that technically this might be true, but, in practice, most guides with comment to vote turned on won't receive a single downvote until comment to vote turns off. That suggests a lot more about what it prevents, in reality.
jhoijhoi
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Downvotes rarely happen with comment to vote at all. I understand that technically this might be true, but, in practice, most guides with comment to vote turned on won't receive a single downvote until comment to vote turns off. That suggests a lot more about what it prevents, in reality.


Joev just said that only a fifth of votes with C2V which are never cast due to C2V are downvotes. That means 80% of lost votes are UPVOTES. What you're saying shouldn't even factor. Basically you're saying that it's worth keeping C2V just so the first 20 votes on a guide (because that's when C2V turns off) are upvotes, no matter what? How does that reflect the true nature of the guide? What C2V prevents in reality, is the reader's ability to honestly reflect on how they feel about the guide. It should be simple. Upvote = I like it. Downvote = I don't like it. It shouldn't mean anything more than that.
PsiGuard
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I get the appeal of C2V (I'm a guide author too) but personally I don't think it does much good for the site. With the low amount of votes on most guide currently, it feels like the only protection against competitive or revenge downvotes, but hopefully we can get voting to a point where those small issues can be drowned out by a larger voting pool.

Like Jai said, it really just inflates every guide score early, rather than protecting good guides. At the same time, far fewer people are voting at all on C2V guides. Seems to do more harm than good, as I firmly believe that great guides don't need C2V to flourish even if they receive a downvote or two early.
Thanks to Jovy for the sig!

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