Never was OP. But, certainly could be a viable top laner with these buffs vrs certain melee champs.
AKA he might be an excellent counterpick now.
AKA he might be an excellent counterpick now.
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The buffs are good, but they don't suddenly turn him into a disgusting monster <.< Depends on who you're going up against, but I'm guessing the unsustained ones suffer quite a lot (early Akali, per example)
About the quints question:
1 - Movement speed. Why? What? What's the loss, really? You have a speed debuff that's getting buffed in range and %, plus a snare. You shine in teamfights, where those quints wouldn't exactly help you run if you wanted to, and chasing with Swain is usually pointless coz most of the time you're chasing a champ that would have more movement speed than you (enemy carry with boosts and PD's and whatnots, etc). Get a Rilay's if you're so bugged about people getting away;
2 - More spellvamp. Eh. It's thoroughly known that Swain's greatest thing is that the more AP he has, the more he heals. You might get those for your early game, but not sure how much you'd benefit from them. Heck, you could even consider lifesteal Quints since you'll be hitting minions more often than sending valuably healing spells. Plus, if you gave him AD bonus with Masteries (which I now recommend, because of last hitting and how it gives you a bigger attack bonus with Torment harass), you might benefit more from that 6% if the idea is getting more survivability early. But still, I'd go for full AP Quints, dunno what the math gods say in terms of post level 6 healing.
About the quints question:
1 - Movement speed. Why? What? What's the loss, really? You have a speed debuff that's getting buffed in range and %, plus a snare. You shine in teamfights, where those quints wouldn't exactly help you run if you wanted to, and chasing with Swain is usually pointless coz most of the time you're chasing a champ that would have more movement speed than you (enemy carry with boosts and PD's and whatnots, etc). Get a Rilay's if you're so bugged about people getting away;
2 - More spellvamp. Eh. It's thoroughly known that Swain's greatest thing is that the more AP he has, the more he heals. You might get those for your early game, but not sure how much you'd benefit from them. Heck, you could even consider lifesteal Quints since you'll be hitting minions more often than sending valuably healing spells. Plus, if you gave him AD bonus with Masteries (which I now recommend, because of last hitting and how it gives you a bigger attack bonus with Torment harass), you might benefit more from that 6% if the idea is getting more survivability early. But still, I'd go for full AP Quints, dunno what the math gods say in terms of post level 6 healing.
Whoa. You guys are coming at it from a completely different angle than I was. I appreciate the feedback on the quints - but I never run Swain top. He's AP mid all day long if he's in my care.
I know some people play him top, but is that the norm? I hardly ever seem to have a problem going mid with Swain, and when I do have problems, they are usually only because of bad decision making.
- Movement Speed : In almost every game I roll Swain, I grab a double or a triple due to people trying to focus me down. I feel faster with them ^_^ it gives me the small bonus that I felt I needed when I was learning Swain, and it's just kind of become a tactic of sorts for me. Works rather well, actually. They aren't necessarily for chasing :P Having 2-3 champs chase you through the jungle for a full 15 seconds of blue-buffed ult can be quite fun!
Good point with the lifesteal thing. I figured I wouldn't go through with the spellvamp idea. I searched around a bit after I posted this and most of the numbers that I did find did not look very good compared to Flat AP / Magic Pen Quints.
Thanks guys
I know some people play him top, but is that the norm? I hardly ever seem to have a problem going mid with Swain, and when I do have problems, they are usually only because of bad decision making.
- Movement Speed : In almost every game I roll Swain, I grab a double or a triple due to people trying to focus me down. I feel faster with them ^_^ it gives me the small bonus that I felt I needed when I was learning Swain, and it's just kind of become a tactic of sorts for me. Works rather well, actually. They aren't necessarily for chasing :P Having 2-3 champs chase you through the jungle for a full 15 seconds of blue-buffed ult can be quite fun!
Good point with the lifesteal thing. I figured I wouldn't go through with the spellvamp idea. I searched around a bit after I posted this and most of the numbers that I did find did not look very good compared to Flat AP / Magic Pen Quints.
Thanks guys
It works but just not worth the IP in my opinion. Also never tried it and I don't think I'd ever bother to =P
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Can't say for sure, but I think I'd prefer 15 AP for trading over pre-6 sustain. Once you have your ult, you'll have all the sustain you need (especially if you pick up a revolver or catalyst).
I think spellvamp quints have their uses, but I don't think Swain is a particularly good candidate for them. I could be wrong though.
I think spellvamp quints have their uses, but I don't think Swain is a particularly good candidate for them. I could be wrong though.
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Tbh I'd rather just use Greater Quintessence of Movement Speed
Greater Quintessence of Movement Speed
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could work, but not to the point that it's worth the IP.
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..and one HELL of a buff at that.
So here's whatsup. I usually run Magic Pen Reds, HP or Mana Regen Yellows, and AP/level Blues. For quints, I choose to go 2 movement speed quints and 1 AP quint.
With the upcoming buffs, I'm definitely thinking about changing all 3 quints to spellvamp. That's a pretty big investment of IP for me, so I was hoping to get some good discussion and hear your guy's opinion on it.
PROS:
It's Swain. With pre-6 sustain. I enjoy building him slightly tanky anyway. With 2 single target spells, I think the 6% spellvamp would really work out. Possibly even moreso for toplane?
NEGS:
-3% movespeed
-5 AP