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example1013
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Fox Rage wrote:
Why do you think I only listed champions with insane sustain (or, in Rumble's case, a spammable shield). To be able to survive tower dives. Just make sure to ahev a pink ward in river AT ALL TIME, and the 2 jungle can just gank a lot, there you go.
Pantheon is basically the best 2v1 diver in the game. He straight-up blocks the first turret hit, and he has a ranged leap with a 1.5 sec stun attached. Combined with any amount of burst, that equals dead solo lane. As an extreme example, we'll pair him with Caitlyn. Now you can't even stand in front of your tower without getting AA from outside tower range, meaning you're guaranteed denial, which means your turret is going to be taking constant free hits and the lane's going to end super-early.
And none of those champions you mention have true infinite sustain. Most of them have indefinitely useable sustain, but none of it is constant, limited by either cooldowns or mana. This means you're still going to take damage. And it's not like you're going to be able to itemize more sustain, because you're going to be zoned and unable to farm.
A pink ward on river at all times? Who's going to be there to place it? Who's going to have enough gold to place that? Who's going to stop the enemy from having 2 or three wards in different spots to protect multiple avenues? There is no way to guarantee lack of vision short of having one of the junglers buy Oracle's and check the river. That's 400g at a time when it's most crucial. And even then, if they're spending so much time babysitting top, how are they supposed to counterjungle and take all the farm? The enemy jungler will know every time when a gank goes down that some camps are open (if both gank, the entire jungle is open), and against a Shaco/Eve type deal, dropping a pink obliterates any chance of successful ganking (and nothing stops the enemy from dropping pinks either).
It flat-out won't work in a real game. You can pubstomp with odd comps all you want, it won't help you win a real game. I faced a team with 4 smites who didn't even bother laning and just ran around smiting and ganking, and they won because we played like ****. That was a gimmick comp, as was this, and all gimmick comps are easily beatable.
I could list a hundred ways to beat this comp, but you can only list one in which it wins: infinite sustain bot that gets ganks every couple minutes and has constant pink wards to remove all enemy vision. And even that's a dicey proposition, because even assuming that all goes perfectly, if the ganks fail or the enemy jungler helps countergank or something and your team comes out behind, you'll lose your tower before 10 minutes and the whole plan will go to **** before you even had a chance to get going.
Nighthawk wrote:
nasus 1 v 2?
only if enemies are dumb...
Morg legit can though, Malz & Cass, not so sure.
Nasus: Spirit Fire errydayallday. At tower, annihilate creeps. Wait for next wave.
Malz: At tower, annihilate creeps. Wait for next wave.
Cass: At tower, annihilate creeps. Wait for next wave.
Take
Heal. WoA first item if necessary.
l337n00bh4x0r
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Not too long ago I went up against two junglers at the same time. Jax and Shaco, of course. Basically, Shaco initiates, and Jax simply jumps you, twirls his stick straight through tower aggro, and wins... The strategy felt very gimmicky, and their team ended up losing once they fell 2-3-4 levels behind with champion kills making up the majority of their cash. Neither one could stay out long either, so it's not like they were knocking over towers... It DID look fun, though, and this is why we play, right? MASSIVE QQ from my team, too. Bullies. >.>
example1013
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l337n00bh4x0r wrote:
Not too long ago I went up against two junglers at the same time. Jax and Shaco, of course. Basically, Shaco initiates, and Jax simply jumps you, twirls his stick straight through tower aggro, and wins... The strategy felt very gimmicky, and their team ended up losing once they fell 2-3-4 levels behind with champion kills making up the majority of their cash. Neither one could stay out long either, so it's not like they were knocking over towers... It DID look fun, though, and this is why we play, right? MASSIVE QQ from my team, too. Bullies. >.>
People also run around on Call of Duty emptying sniper rifle clips without zooming in to make no-scope montages, but they don't score very well, and no one calls it a strategy. Sure, you can have tons of fun with troll comps, and I encourage doing this kind of thing for amusement in unranked, but I'm not going to pretend like it'd be in any way viable. It relies completely on the enemy being so thrown that they can't counter the strategy within their comp/meta, which makes it non-viable, regardless of how fun it is.
Acid Reigns
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I've had this idea myself, and was curious if it would work.
Of course it's easy to counter, but are you GOING to counter it? Who the hell is going to expect a dual jungle??
As for bot, if he can make it to 6 ok, and he blows his ult for sustain instead of fighting, I'm willing to bet sion could do it. Though that's a pretty big if. :P
Of course it's easy to counter, but are you GOING to counter it? Who the hell is going to expect a dual jungle??
As for bot, if he can make it to 6 ok, and he blows his ult for sustain instead of fighting, I'm willing to bet sion could do it. Though that's a pretty big if. :P
Btw, this is a WHAT IF.
Oops, there goes the plan, there is no champion solidly capable of 1v2.
I've done this with Kennen vs a Blitzcrank + Sion bot. In normal btw, but I managed to handle it for some reason.
First, you can't guarantee a team comp. Second, You don't have a level and gold advantage, you have two people missing out on XP (if you think you're going to get all the camps, you're flat-out wrong). Third, you have no late-game carry. And fourth, you have one lane that's going to be way behind on gold by virtue of getting at least partially zoned in a 2v1. This last one is 100% guaranteed, unless the enemy team consists of total ******s. What you'll have is even levels spread out through an overleveled but underfarmed bot lane, a normal mid lane, a normal top lane, and two underleveled junglers, who are probably somewhat underfarmed as well. And honestly, if the enemy team just decided to just screw the meta and go 2v1 in two lanes, I guarantee one of the lanes would be weak enough to get completely zoned and lose lane 2v1, defeating the entire purpose this idea was conceived with.
Counterjungling with lane support is super effective because it both gives the lanes xp and cs advantage, and gives the enemy jungler xp and cs disadvantage (and buff steals prevent ganks and slow enemy farming even further), but dedicated counterjungling of the kind you're suggesting doesn't work because it's taking 2 people to steal the already pathetic farm of one person.
I'm saying you get two strong 1v1 junglers who can destroy the other jungler if they happen to see him. Also, they don't share farm, they constantly counterjungle.
Jungler 1 goes to his wolves+blue and enemy wraiths+red+golems.
Jungler 2 goes to his wraiths+golems+red and enemy wolves+blue.
DuffTime wrote:
Oops, there goes the plan, there is no champion solidly capable of 1v2.
I've done this with
Kennen vs a Blitzcrank + Sion bot. In normal btw, but I managed to handle it for some reason.example1013 wrote:
First, you can't guarantee a team comp. Second, You don't have a level and gold advantage, you have two people missing out on XP (if you think you're going to get all the camps, you're flat-out wrong). Third, you have no late-game carry. And fourth, you have one lane that's going to be way behind on gold by virtue of getting at least partially zoned in a 2v1. This last one is 100% guaranteed, unless the enemy team consists of total ******s. What you'll have is even levels spread out through an overleveled but underfarmed bot lane, a normal mid lane, a normal top lane, and two underleveled junglers, who are probably somewhat underfarmed as well. And honestly, if the enemy team just decided to just screw the meta and go 2v1 in two lanes, I guarantee one of the lanes would be weak enough to get completely zoned and lose lane 2v1, defeating the entire purpose this idea was conceived with.
Counterjungling with lane support is super effective because it both gives the lanes xp and cs advantage, and gives the enemy jungler xp and cs disadvantage (and buff steals prevent ganks and slow enemy farming even further), but dedicated counterjungling of the kind you're suggesting doesn't work because it's taking 2 people to steal the already pathetic farm of one person.
I'm saying you get two strong 1v1 junglers who can destroy the other jungler if they happen to see him. Also, they don't share farm, they constantly counterjungle.
Jungler 1 goes to his wolves+blue and enemy wraiths+red+golems.
Jungler 2 goes to his wraiths+golems+red and enemy wolves+blue.
example1013
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Anything can theoretically work given the right conditions. I've watched Atmog's Shaco stomp games. I've gone 20/6/x on Ashe. I've gotten double kills on level 3 turret dives with Garen. Hell, I've even seen AD Ez be somewhat effective on occasion. Doesn't mean any of those are going to work on a regular basis.
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Vlad, Rumble, Garen, Renekton and Warwick would like to have a word with you.
It could work if you put the AD carry top (good solo top ad carry : Corki, Vayne and Graves), AP mid, and one of the champ I listed in bot lane. They are more champions that can do 1v2 without too much problem, but I can't think of more atm.
Vlad loses 1v1, how are you going to win 1v2?
Renekton has **** sustained damage, and WW can't life steal through two people.