Xerath theory crafting

[quote=JunSupport]Buying [[Wriggle's Lantern]] on an AD carry is an effective early game tactic if you see the game dragging out over 45+ minutes. If your jungle also has a wriggle, then that means an fast Baron kill when the team finds an opportunity and superior long-term farm for the AD carry. It's a planned strategy that's won several tournament semi-final games. [[Rod of Ages]] is good because you can build a flippin [[Catalyst the Protector]] for your lane; plus the health makes Deathcap more affordable in the risk-and-reward area. Rushing [[Rabadon's Deathcap]] is no good if you don't have health. That's why any of the top-elo Deathcap builds are headed by a triple [[Doran's Ring]] stack or some sort of health item. You cannot put Deathcap to good use if you get focused down easily.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Buying Wriggles is a tactic used to win lane. When you get to the teamfight, you don't deal the damage needed to be an impact. It delays your build too much. At that point, your support may as well have just taken some creeps and used them to heal you more. Annie with flash tibbers and a super early, rushed Deathcap is a scary thing..[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=Mooninites] let's be honest, RoA is a garbage item that throws health on casters so they think they're tanky. Meanwhile Annie gets void staff and sorc boots and does 150% damage to you. hello 2k Tibbers [/quote] I can't agree more to that, I haven't bought [[Rod of Ages]] since I was level 15 xD I don't own [[Xerath]] but he seems fun to play. However this ability that makes him stop moving seems hard to use. [/quote] RoA is a great all around item. When I see an enemy building damage rather than Rylai's or RoA I tend to scoff. Sure they have 220 AP but they only have 1200HP. I on the other hand have ~175 AP and close to 2k HP. You be the judge of who will win the burst contest. Considering this Meta also encourages these tanky DPS mother fuckers who can deal nice damage while having superior HP values, a mage with ~1200-1500 HP who can't deal enough burst damage to kill one of these guys sitting at 2200HP and a little mr is useless. But a mage who can survive long enough to get a combo off once or twice can kill them. So you either build damage and no survival or some survival and some damage. End game you'll have ~700AP and ~2200-2300HP sounds like a winner to me. Not building RoA or Rylai's is just setting yourself up for failure unless the enemy team are complete morons. [/quote] Last score in ranked game with [[Lux]] without [[Rod of Ages]] or any sort of survivability item: 5-3-15. And the enemy was quite good. [/quote] So 5/3/15...I'm not seeing the DIRECT correlation to your statement and mine. I wasn't playing ranked but I went 19/5/something with Cass (against a competent enemy team) and I did have an RoA. Does that mean then: If I do build RoA or Rylai's (or both) I will do better than if I do not? I mean in a literal philosophical argument (using "if this is true/false then this is true/false") you've actually reinforced my point. Granted a variable not in play for both is that you were playing ranked, but I do believe an arguement can be made that playing ranked or not ranked generally makes little difference when soloqued. You'll find morons in both game types. Sorry for the convoluted response, let me get to the meat of the issue. Your response still does not disprove that building RoA/Rylai's is less beneficial than not building said items for more offensive based items (deathcap, Void Staff, etc.) For any number of games that we can prove took place there will be alotted evidence on both sides that can prove or disprove our points. This is majoritively a debate of opinion, I have sucess while building more defensive. The end result is neglible difference in damage output with significant difference in survivability. You on the other hand find sucess by playing with more offense oriented build. We can debate this to the end of time, I still find a bit of defense makes your ofense stronger. It also fits my sometimes recless playstyle. :P[/quote]

[quote=IceCreamy][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=Mooninites] let's be honest, RoA is a garbage item that throws health on casters so they think they're tanky. Meanwhile Annie gets void staff and sorc boots and does 150% damage to you. hello 2k Tibbers [/quote] I can't agree more to that, I haven't bought [[Rod of Ages]] since I was level 15 xD I don't own [[Xerath]] but he seems fun to play. However this ability that makes him stop moving seems hard to use. [/quote] RoA is a great all around item. When I see an enemy building damage rather than Rylai's or RoA I tend to scoff. Sure they have 220 AP but they only have 1200HP. I on the other hand have ~175 AP and close to 2k HP. You be the judge of who will win the burst contest. Considering this Meta also encourages these tanky DPS mother fuckers who can deal nice damage while having superior HP values, a mage with ~1200-1500 HP who can't deal enough burst damage to kill one of these guys sitting at 2200HP and a little mr is useless. But a mage who can survive long enough to get a combo off once or twice can kill them. So you either build damage and no survival or some survival and some damage. End game you'll have ~700AP and ~2200-2300HP sounds like a winner to me. Not building RoA or Rylai's is just setting yourself up for failure unless the enemy team are complete morons. [/quote] Last score in ranked game with [[Lux]] without [[Rod of Ages]] or any sort of survivability item: 5-3-15. And the enemy was quite good. [/quote] So 5/3/15...I'm not seeing the DIRECT correlation to your statement and mine. I wasn't playing ranked but I went 19/5/something with Cass (against a competent enemy team) and I did have an RoA. Does that mean then: If I do build RoA or Rylai's (or both) I will do better than if I do not? I mean in a literal philosophical argument (using "if this is true/false then this is true/false") you've actually reinforced my point. Granted a variable not in play for both is that you were playing ranked, but I do believe an arguement can be made that playing ranked or not ranked generally makes little difference when soloqued. You'll find morons in both game types. Sorry for the convoluted response, let me get to the meat of the issue. Your response still does not disprove that building RoA/Rylai's is less beneficial than not building said items for more offensive based items (deathcap, Void Staff, etc.) For any number of games that we can prove took place there will be alotted evidence on both sides that can prove or disprove our points. This is majoritively a debate of opinion, I have sucess while building more defensive. The end result is neglible difference in damage output with significant difference in survivability. You on the other hand find sucess by playing with more offense oriented build. We can debate this to the end of time, I still find a bit of defense makes your ofense stronger. It also fits my sometimes recless playstyle. :P [/quote] It was just an example... I have many more of such scores ;) Anyways it all depends on the champion, some need more survivability while some need more AP. I just think that RoA is a crappy item, and you like it, and that's fine. But we are getting totally offtopic :P Last thing: you say you are sometimes reckless, I never am. Probably our ways of playing are so different, and that is why we disagree here ;)[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=DuffTime] When I say false to simple statement, I am not necessarily saying that I think the 100% opposite is true, simply that the original statement is not.[/quote] I guess we'll disagree on this then. I'm pretty sure most ppl think like me tho :P[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I think if you can afford to get the Deathcap and not the RoA then you probably should, but that's just me x_x[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=Mooninites] let's be honest, RoA is a garbage item that throws health on casters so they think they're tanky. Meanwhile Annie gets void staff and sorc boots and does 150% damage to you. hello 2k Tibbers [/quote] I can't agree more to that, I haven't bought [[Rod of Ages]] since I was level 15 xD I don't own [[Xerath]] but he seems fun to play. However this ability that makes him stop moving seems hard to use. [/quote] RoA is a great all around item. When I see an enemy building damage rather than Rylai's or RoA I tend to scoff. Sure they have 220 AP but they only have 1200HP. I on the other hand have ~175 AP and close to 2k HP. You be the judge of who will win the burst contest. Considering this Meta also encourages these tanky DPS mother fuckers who can deal nice damage while having superior HP values, a mage with ~1200-1500 HP who can't deal enough burst damage to kill one of these guys sitting at 2200HP and a little mr is useless. But a mage who can survive long enough to get a combo off once or twice can kill them. So you either build damage and no survival or some survival and some damage. End game you'll have ~700AP and ~2200-2300HP sounds like a winner to me. Not building RoA or Rylai's is just setting yourself up for failure unless the enemy team are complete morons. [/quote] Last score in ranked game with [[Lux]] without [[Rod of Ages]] or any sort of survivability item: 5-3-15. And the enemy was quite good. [/quote] So 5/3/15...I'm not seeing the DIRECT correlation to your statement and mine. I wasn't playing ranked but I went 19/5/something with Cass (against a competent enemy team) and I did have an RoA. Does that mean then: If I do build RoA or Rylai's (or both) I will do better than if I do not? I mean in a literal philosophical argument (using "if this is true/false then this is true/false") you've actually reinforced my point. Granted a variable not in play for both is that you were playing ranked, but I do believe an arguement can be made that playing ranked or not ranked generally makes little difference when soloqued. You'll find morons in both game types. Sorry for the convoluted response, let me get to the meat of the issue. Your response still does not disprove that building RoA/Rylai's is less beneficial than not building said items for more offensive based items (deathcap, Void Staff, etc.) For any number of games that we can prove took place there will be alotted evidence on both sides that can prove or disprove our points. This is majoritively a debate of opinion, I have sucess while building more defensive. The end result is neglible difference in damage output with significant difference in survivability. You on the other hand find sucess by playing with more offense oriented build. We can debate this to the end of time, I still find a bit of defense makes your ofense stronger. It also fits my sometimes recless playstyle. :P [/quote] It was just an example... I have many more of such scores ;) Anyways it all depends on the champion, some need more survivability while some need more AP. I just think that RoA is a crappy item, and you like it, and that's fine. But we are getting totally offtopic :P Last thing: you say you are sometimes reckless, I never am. Probably our ways of playing are so different, and that is why we disagree here ;) [/quote] Well to stay on topic then, I've built Rylai's every game with Xerath thus far. The slow is actually quite nice, I've thought about RoA, but Xerath needs instantaneous jumps in AP to keep pace with other champions. Which is why I'm going to start building Tear, his base mana at level 18 is ~1060, so snagging tear and getting it stacked then getting my survival with Rylai's then Deathcap should (for my playstyle) actually improve my damage output throughout a game. All in all Rylai's is quite nice on him especially with his capability of applying the slow to a whole team and keeping them slowed for a relatively nice duration.[/quote]

[quote=IceCreamy][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=Mooninites] let's be honest, RoA is a garbage item that throws health on casters so they think they're tanky. Meanwhile Annie gets void staff and sorc boots and does 150% damage to you. hello 2k Tibbers [/quote] I can't agree more to that, I haven't bought [[Rod of Ages]] since I was level 15 xD I don't own [[Xerath]] but he seems fun to play. However this ability that makes him stop moving seems hard to use. [/quote] RoA is a great all around item. When I see an enemy building damage rather than Rylai's or RoA I tend to scoff. Sure they have 220 AP but they only have 1200HP. I on the other hand have ~175 AP and close to 2k HP. You be the judge of who will win the burst contest. Considering this Meta also encourages these tanky DPS mother fuckers who can deal nice damage while having superior HP values, a mage with ~1200-1500 HP who can't deal enough burst damage to kill one of these guys sitting at 2200HP and a little mr is useless. But a mage who can survive long enough to get a combo off once or twice can kill them. So you either build damage and no survival or some survival and some damage. End game you'll have ~700AP and ~2200-2300HP sounds like a winner to me. Not building RoA or Rylai's is just setting yourself up for failure unless the enemy team are complete morons. [/quote] Last score in ranked game with [[Lux]] without [[Rod of Ages]] or any sort of survivability item: 5-3-15. And the enemy was quite good. [/quote] So 5/3/15...I'm not seeing the DIRECT correlation to your statement and mine. I wasn't playing ranked but I went 19/5/something with Cass (against a competent enemy team) and I did have an RoA. Does that mean then: If I do build RoA or Rylai's (or both) I will do better than if I do not? I mean in a literal philosophical argument (using "if this is true/false then this is true/false") you've actually reinforced my point. Granted a variable not in play for both is that you were playing ranked, but I do believe an arguement can be made that playing ranked or not ranked generally makes little difference when soloqued. You'll find morons in both game types. Sorry for the convoluted response, let me get to the meat of the issue. Your response still does not disprove that building RoA/Rylai's is less beneficial than not building said items for more offensive based items (deathcap, Void Staff, etc.) For any number of games that we can prove took place there will be alotted evidence on both sides that can prove or disprove our points. This is majoritively a debate of opinion, I have sucess while building more defensive. The end result is neglible difference in damage output with significant difference in survivability. You on the other hand find sucess by playing with more offense oriented build. We can debate this to the end of time, I still find a bit of defense makes your ofense stronger. It also fits my sometimes recless playstyle. :P [/quote] It was just an example... I have many more of such scores ;) Anyways it all depends on the champion, some need more survivability while some need more AP. I just think that RoA is a crappy item, and you like it, and that's fine. But we are getting totally offtopic :P Last thing: you say you are sometimes reckless, I never am. Probably our ways of playing are so different, and that is why we disagree here ;) [/quote] Well to stay on topic then, I've built Rylai's every game with Xerath thus far. The slow is actually quite nice, I've thought about RoA, but Xerath needs instantaneous jumps in AP to keep pace with other champions. Which is why I'm going to start building Tear, his base mana at level 18 is ~1060, so snagging tear and getting it stacked then getting my survival with Rylai's then Deathcap should (for my playstyle) actually improve my damage output throughout a game. All in all Rylai's is quite nice on him especially with his capability of applying the slow to a whole team and keeping them slowed for a relatively nice duration. [/quote] That seems really viable :)[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] [quote=IceCreamy] [quote=Mooninites] let's be honest, RoA is a garbage item that throws health on casters so they think they're tanky. Meanwhile Annie gets void staff and sorc boots and does 150% damage to you. hello 2k Tibbers [/quote] I can't agree more to that, I haven't bought [[Rod of Ages]] since I was level 15 xD I don't own [[Xerath]] but he seems fun to play. However this ability that makes him stop moving seems hard to use. [/quote] RoA is a great all around item. When I see an enemy building damage rather than Rylai's or RoA I tend to scoff. Sure they have 220 AP but they only have 1200HP. I on the other hand have ~175 AP and close to 2k HP. You be the judge of who will win the burst contest. Considering this Meta also encourages these tanky DPS mother fuckers who can deal nice damage while having superior HP values, a mage with ~1200-1500 HP who can't deal enough burst damage to kill one of these guys sitting at 2200HP and a little mr is useless. But a mage who can survive long enough to get a combo off once or twice can kill them. So you either build damage and no survival or some survival and some damage. End game you'll have ~700AP and ~2200-2300HP sounds like a winner to me. Not building RoA or Rylai's is just setting yourself up for failure unless the enemy team are complete morons. [/quote] Last score in ranked game with [[Lux]] without [[Rod of Ages]] or any sort of survivability item: 5-3-15. And the enemy was quite good. [/quote] So 5/3/15...I'm not seeing the DIRECT correlation to your statement and mine. I wasn't playing ranked but I went 19/5/something with Cass (against a competent enemy team) and I did have an RoA. Does that mean then: If I do build RoA or Rylai's (or both) I will do better than if I do not? I mean in a literal philosophical argument (using "if this is true/false then this is true/false") you've actually reinforced my point. Granted a variable not in play for both is that you were playing ranked, but I do believe an arguement can be made that playing ranked or not ranked generally makes little difference when soloqued. You'll find morons in both game types. Sorry for the convoluted response, let me get to the meat of the issue. Your response still does not disprove that building RoA/Rylai's is less beneficial than not building said items for more offensive based items (deathcap, Void Staff, etc.) For any number of games that we can prove took place there will be alotted evidence on both sides that can prove or disprove our points. This is majoritively a debate of opinion, I have sucess while building more defensive. The end result is neglible difference in damage output with significant difference in survivability. You on the other hand find sucess by playing with more offense oriented build. We can debate this to the end of time, I still find a bit of defense makes your ofense stronger. It also fits my sometimes recless playstyle. :P [/quote] It was just an example... I have many more of such scores ;) Anyways it all depends on the champion, some need more survivability while some need more AP. I just think that RoA is a crappy item, and you like it, and that's fine. But we are getting totally offtopic :P Last thing: you say you are sometimes reckless, I never am. Probably our ways of playing are so different, and that is why we disagree here ;) [/quote] Well to stay on topic then, I've built Rylai's every game with Xerath thus far. The slow is actually quite nice, I've thought about RoA, but Xerath needs instantaneous jumps in AP to keep pace with other champions. Which is why I'm going to start building Tear, his base mana at level 18 is ~1060, so snagging tear and getting it stacked then getting my survival with Rylai's then Deathcap should (for my playstyle) actually improve my damage output throughout a game. All in all Rylai's is quite nice on him especially with his capability of applying the slow to a whole team and keeping them slowed for a relatively nice duration. [/quote] That seems really viable :) [/quote] Glad you think so, the issue with Xerath is that, even with a nice sized mana pool his late game regen is still poor (That's with Morello's too btw). I found myself Ooming at odd moments, so AA will remedy that issue and still pump up his AP and ofc by proxy his passive. Couple that with Rylai's and some CDR we've got ourselves a perma poker. I wanna do something like Alistar/Cait/Xerath/Nidalee/Amummu as a team comp. Amazing CC and great poke. Lane control and harass with the ability to disrupt and hold enemies in place. Theoretically a strong set up, even though Nidalee is a bit lack luster atm, her Spear Throw is just devestating. Cait+Ali Bot Nid solo top, Xerath mid, Amumu Jungle. Gives me chills.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]You realistically cannot keep up with other AP's using Xerath, he wasn't designed for it. He's very good at blowing up carries! If you want to deal real damage to the whole team, consider a Brand or an Annie for burst, or a Cass or a Ryze or something for sustained damage output.[/quote]