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Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

Creator: Vynertje December 30, 2014 5:15am
Out Of Pancakes
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Good job for increasing your wards put down. Do you think putting more wards per game actually helped you?


I'm not Vyn but here is the main thing I disagree with: you only get Sightstone at 11:15 and 12:43 in those games which is, imo, pretty late, because you prefer to upgrade your relic shield and get Boots before.
So you spend your first 825 gold in those items instead of buying Sightstone. If I look at when you get your boots in those games and replace them with you buying Sightstone, you would've gotten it at 7:14 and 6:49 which is much better in my opinion.


Why getting Sightstone over those two items: because vision is a key to victory.
I really think that spending those 800 gold in this item over spending them in targon's brace and boots is a much better investment when it comes to the impact it has on the game: when you get back after getting Sightstone, you can ward the entrance of your/their jungle, ward dragon in case, and get all the vision you want of bot bushes if you need to in case of fights.
The only time I'd get a targon's brace is when I want FoTM but I don't have enough gold yet to complete it and I already have a Kindlegem.


TLDR; rush Sightstone before any other item. Numero uno priority.
OTGBionicArm
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Is there any particular reason you're not using flat health seals on Braum?

EDIT: Also, it's good that you're getting around one ward/minute down and buying vision wards, but how do you end up destroying so few? I mean, in a 40+ minute game where you bought 13 vision wards you should probably end up removing more than three wards, generally.


Oh, messed up the runes when laying em out. Fixed it. Thanks for catching that.

And I don't know. Maybe I'm sweeping or pink warding the wrong places? I never find wards. Maybe they just werent warding. Or I'm unlucky. I usually only destroy the ones I visibly see get dropped cause otherwise I find nothing.

@Pancakes, thanks for the critique. I generally like the Targon's for sustain, but you're probably right and I'll start doing that.

Also, added the game I just played a minute ago.
The_Nameless_Bard
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They were definitely warding, even if it was less, in total, than your team did.
Vynertje
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Heya Vyn. I've taken your recent advice to heart and been trying to overall improve my warding game. I thought I'd ask if you look over these recent games and tell me what you think? I'm almost at 1 ward/minute, but I still feel like I could improve. Any more tips?


Amounts of wards placed looks good, so I'm happy to see that.

Will start by expanding on the point by Out of Pancakes. He's completely right in saying you should absolutely never prioritize targon's brace over either Boots/ Mobility Boots or Sightstone. Your first 800g should always be spent on either Mobis or Sightstone (preferably with some pots and pinkwards) and the next 800g spent should be on the one you didn't get first. The trade-off is between roaming power or vision. If you get mobis, you should spend some change on regular Stealth Wards though, with sightstone that isn't as important.

While we're discussing builds, I'd like to touch on your usage of Locket of the Iron Solari. Right now, it's a decent item but mostly used against very-heavy magic damage comps. In your Tahm Kench game there was only one magic damage threat, being Akali. Locket really doesn't do much in that game so I wouldn't get it. In another game where you played versus Corki/ LeBlanc it already made more sense because their two main carries dealt primarily magic damage (Corki deals more magic dmg than physical) but I still might have prioritized Zeke's Harbinger over Locket because you were paired with Tristana. In your other Braum game you got Zeke's Harbinger for Kalista while I personally don't really think she benefits from the item all that much - while their top/mid were AP carries and dealt by far the most damage.

Also to touch on the part by The Nameless Bard, I'm not sure you could've done a much better job sweeping wards because like 90% of the wards placed by the enemy team were trinket wards. The only game where that may have been the case was the first Braum game linked; the 43 minute one. However, from the looks of it all of the wards destroyed by your team were because of your pinks/sweepers considering they didn't buy any.

It's really hard making good use of sweepers when people ward very little so I wouldn't focus on that too much.
OTGBionicArm
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Pertaining to the item builds;

In the first Braum game, I was in the process of building Zeke's, it just got delayed because LB was so strong I felt I absolutely needed Locket.
In the Tahm game I got locket because I honestly felt like Akli and Sejuani were bigger threats than anyone else, but it was a pubstomp game, so I feel like I could have just built Ravenous Hydra and had the same end result.
Lastly, the second Braum game I actually linked Tryndamere and not Kalista with the Zekes.

Was I not supposed to do that?
Vynertje
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Nop, Tryndamere gets about 80% crit from his build + passive so it's quite redundant. Besides that, you usually want to let tryndamere splitpush on his own instead of grouping with him so it definitely is a waste of the item.
OTGBionicArm
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Vynertje wrote:
Nop, Tryndamere gets about 80% crit from his build + passive so it's quite redundant. Besides that, you usually want to let tryndamere splitpush on his own instead of grouping with him so it definitely is a waste of the item.


Ironically, Kalista was the one splitpushing. Tryndamere was the primary tank, adc carry and anti-carry.
Vynertje
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Silver ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
OTGBionicArm
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A follow up question. I'm begging to think that Braum is truly the only support I ever have to play. Is there ever a bad time to pick him? I have yet to see a support that actually do well enough to make me think he has a bad match up.
Vynertje
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Nop he's op as fk

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