Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

[quote=OTGBionicArm]So you'd say any bursty support is kind of out (Except Leo/Blitz?) this season? I mean the likes of Zyra, and Velkoz or Zilean/other mage supports. I assume Brand is safe from this as he's good against tanks damage wise.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]I dont consider Zyra/Velkoz/Zilean bursty supports. In general, I don't think they're in an any better place than they were before, but not really worse either.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=Out Of Pancakes]You can put pressure and be agressive with the Kench. Not with Raka.[/quote]My point was that the champion is braindead to play because he's a broken piece of shit. I'm aware he does more than [[Soraka]]. I had no idea how to play him when I bought him (like I had not even read through what his kit did), that didn't stop me from being able to win nearly every lane I played him in because he's just not that hard to play. Play [[Soraka]] poorly or have an ADC who doesn't know what the hell they're doing and you can easily lose a lane with her, she doesn't just win lanes by existing in them like some people are implying right now.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=Out Of Pancakes]You can put pressure and be agressive with the Kench. Not with Raka.[/quote]My point was that the champion is braindead to play because he's a broken piece of shit. I'm aware he does more than [[Soraka]]. I had no idea how to play him when I bought him (like I had not even read through what his kit did), that didn't stop me from being able to win nearly every lane I played him in because he's just not that hard to play. Play [[Soraka]] poorly or have an ADC who doesn't know what the hell they're doing and you can easily lose a lane with her, she doesn't just win lanes by existing in them like some people are implying right now.[/quote] I dont think it's fair for either of us to talk about Tahm or Soraka here, as both of us are biased af on the subject. I want Soraka to be wiped from the game entirely and you obviously arent a fan of the Kench man. On the flip side, we both actually like the champion the other one hates. xD Anything we say on the subject isn't really constructive.[/quote]

[quote=mastrer1000]I think it is way better to just remove both of them because re oving only one would be unfair.[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri][quote=OTGBionicArm]And that's irritating. 2 supports do well against her? The rest have to equalize the lane or roam. Forgive me if this isn't the place for discussion of whether or not Soraka is toxic, but come on. She makes bot lane so anti-fun. It's like reverse (pre-rework) AP Nidalee.[/quote] This idea of [[soraka]] being a necessary target is exactly what I was looking for when I first started playing the game back in season 3. I'd come from World of Warcraft and other games where "target the healer" was an absolutely necessary tactic. I tended to play a priest, where the idea was that you were a force multiplier. By yourself, you're vulnerable. Paired with another player, you're stronger but still vulnerable. In a group with tanks and damage dealers who can protect you, you're godly. That's what I was hoping for when I started the game. I was hoping to find an awesome support champion where I could act as a godly force multiplier that would have the enemy team do everything to get me first. Instead, what I found were supports being vision bots, buying 1-2 items, and generally in the late game fights being worth about half a regular character and being virtually ignorable. The situation got better as supports slowly got more gold income by the use of [[sightstone]]s and the addition of various support items, but it wasn't enough to make them equal to a full champion in team fights -- where in my mind, supports should excel. With this preseason, I'm starting to see supports coming into their own. Attack mages like [[brand]] and [[zyra]] are able to get the gear they need to cause some real damage. Tank supports like [[leona]], [[braum]], and [[nautilus]] can get the gear they need to become fully realized tanks (rather than just "off tanks" as they were before). And now, we have a true healer in [[soraka]] who can be exactly the kind of support I always envisioned I wanted to play -- one who can control a fight if one lets her freely heal. My hope is not that Riot will nerf [[soraka]]. I hope instead that Riot will buff other utility supports to [[soraka]]'s level.[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]The irony is Zyra was a top tier support in Season 3 and hasn't been as good since[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]The irony is Zyra was a top tier support in Season 3 and hasn't been as good since[/quote]

[quote=Insomaniac]^ What do you think is the reason for that ?[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=MungoGeri][quote=OTGBionicArm]And that's irritating. 2 supports do well against her? The rest have to equalize the lane or roam. Forgive me if this isn't the place for discussion of whether or not Soraka is toxic, but come on. She makes bot lane so anti-fun. It's like reverse (pre-rework) AP Nidalee.[/quote] This idea of [[soraka]] being a necessary target is exactly what I was looking for when I first started playing the game back in season 3. I'd come from World of Warcraft and other games where "target the healer" was an absolutely necessary tactic. I tended to play a priest, where the idea was that you were a force multiplier. By yourself, you're vulnerable. Paired with another player, you're stronger but still vulnerable. In a group with tanks and damage dealers who can protect you, you're godly. That's what I was hoping for when I started the game. I was hoping to find an awesome support champion where I could act as a godly force multiplier that would have the enemy team do everything to get me first. Instead, what I found were supports being vision bots, buying 1-2 items, and generally in the late game fights being worth about half a regular character and being virtually ignorable. The situation got better as supports slowly got more gold income by the use of [[sightstone]]s and the addition of various support items, but it wasn't enough to make them equal to a full champion in team fights -- where in my mind, supports should excel. With this preseason, I'm starting to see supports coming into their own. Attack mages like [[brand]] and [[zyra]] are able to get the gear they need to cause some real damage. Tank supports like [[leona]], [[braum]], and [[nautilus]] can get the gear they need to become fully realized tanks (rather than just "off tanks" as they were before). And now, we have a true healer in [[soraka]] who can be exactly the kind of support I always envisioned I wanted to play -- one who can control a fight if one lets her freely heal. My hope is not that Riot will nerf [[soraka]]. I hope instead that Riot will buff other utility supports to [[soraka]]'s level.[/quote] See, I came from GW1 with the same concept. I ALWAYS hated it. The only strategy is to kill the healer, or anything that prevents you from doing so. I dislike the entire dynamic of healers, and feel like everyone should responsible for their own well being in the long run. Riot was right when they said dedicated healers were a toxic and not fun mechanic like 3 years ago. Then they turn around and make Soraka obnoxious like that.[/quote]