Charging Veigar rushing Lich Bane

[quote=Hamstertamer]Hey guys, I'm Hamstertamer from Dotafire, and I've recently started playing LoL for fun. I've picked up on [[veigar]], who is just awesome, but after reading guides and recommended builds I quickly became very dissatisfied with the result. Basically the standard build I saw on the guy was rushing [[morellonomicon]] and just stacking AP items for damage. What you got was a guy with insane damage output but zero mobility, zero initiation, no way to land [[event horizon]] (it's just soo easy to dodge), and who just gets kited to no end. So he just ends up AFK farming and having low impact. So I tried my own, which emphasizes mobility, initiation, and snowballing potential. I went [[predator]] as main rune, so that you can just charge people and [[event horizon]] them. [[ingenious hunter]] reduces the CD to 75-ish seconds so it's up whenever your ultimate is. [[boots of mobility]] is just so good on him, again for initiation with his E. And for items [[lich bane]] I think has an amazing synergy with his kit because of the 50% AP scaling, 100% if you land two attacks in one combo. You can go charge -> [[event horizon]] -> AA -> Q and W -> wait 1.5s -> AA -> [[primordial burst]] for heavy scaling damage which is already very high early thanks to passive stacks. So I just rush [[boots of mobility]] and [[lich bane]] and try to snowball off charging people once I have that. Any opinions/suggestions on this playstyle?[/quote]

[quote=Ronyk]Hello Hamstertamer, nice to meet you! Before I talk about your build ideas, I want to say that I always support people playing champions differently than how the meta dictates. You play how you like to have fun. Now onto my opinions and suggestions: First of all, I like [[predator]] in general. It's an easy to use keystone that allows for the occasional fun outplay. I'd probably go [[unsealed spellbook]] with [[Veigar]] personally, just because I feel the inspiration tree has so much to offer the tiny master of evil. I can't say I like the [[boots of mobility]] idea. It just doesn't feel worth the extra roaming speed, compared to the raw stats you get from [[Sorcerer's Shoes]], [[Ninja Tabi]], or [[Mercury's Treads]]. On the same vein, [[boots of mobility]] are usually taken because it allows you to roam around the map quicker, ganking your teammate’s lanes. If you feel the need to initiate and catch people out with [[Event Horizon]], try playing with [[ghost]] and [[flash]]. If you really REALLY want faster movement speed during combat (remember, [[boots of mobility]] only grant the extra speed outside of combat), [[Boots of Swiftness]] are what you should aim for. Now, [[lich bane]] is an item that theoretically can be built on any AP champion with some success. The reason it’s not usually built on [[Veigar]] is for two reasons: The first is that it’s passive (the cool part about it) doesn’t usually get more than one proc off when [[Veigar]] has it, since [[Veigar]]’s abilities can be chained together to blow somebody up in less than the 1.5 seconds it takes for the lichbane to proc a second time. The second reason is that even though it gives 80 AP, Veigar is paying an awful lot of gold for that 80AP, and it’s not granting any kind of mana regen or magic pen, armor, magic resist, or health. I took the time and looked at a bunch of AP items, did a bit of easy math, and came up with the following: [[Lich Bane]]: 80AP for 3200 Gold (40 G/AP) [[Luden's Echo]]: 100AP for 3200 Gold (32 G/AP) [[Morellonomicon]]: 100AP for 2900 Gold (29 G/AP) [[Nashor's Tooth]]: 80AP for 3000 Gold (37.5 G/AP) [[Rabadon's Deathcap]]: 120 (plus more) AP for 3800 Gold (less than 32 G/AP) [[Rod of Ages]]: 60AP-100AP for 2700 Gold (45-27 G/AP) [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]]: 75AP for 2600 Gold (~35 G/AP) [[Void Staff]]: 80AP (Plus Magic Pen) for 2650 Gold (~33 G/AP) [[Zhonya's Hourglass]]: 70AP for 2900 Gold (~41.5 G/AP) [[Archangel's Staff]]: 80AP for 3100 Gold (39 G/AP) The purpose of those guides is to get an early power spike ([[Morellonomicon]] is so good these days), and to follow through with more affordable AP, Magic Pen, and stats that allow for survivability (Armor/MR/Health), while getting max cooldown reduction along the way. [[Lich Bane]] may have 80AP, but the amount of gold you’re paying per point of ability power is more than almost any other completed item (Out of the ones I looked at, Zhonya’s was the only one that was more expensive per AP, but there may be others). I’m afraid my time is running out. I’d like to speak more about how it isn’t [[Veigar]]’s responsibility to initiate fights, but somebody else will have to talk about that. Feel free to ask me anything about what I wrote. And remember that I am always ALWAYS in support of somebody playing a champion their own style. TTFN (Tata for now) ^^[/quote]

[quote=Hamstertamer][quote=Ronyk] I can't say I like the [[boots of mobility]] idea. It just doesn't feel worth the extra roaming speed, compared to the raw stats you get from [[Sorcerer's Shoes]], [[Ninja Tabi]], or [[Mercury's Treads]]. On the same vein, [[boots of mobility]] are usually taken because it allows you to roam around the map quicker, ganking your teammate’s lanes. If you feel the need to initiate and catch people out with [[Event Horizon]], try playing with [[ghost]] and [[flash]]. If you really REALLY want faster movement speed during combat (remember, [[boots of mobility]] only grant the extra speed outside of combat), [[Boots of Swiftness]] are what you should aim for. [/quote] I think you have a point here. Indeed I should go [[ghost]] + [[flash]] on him, the mobility is just too good. I was too hung up on [[teleport]] because in DotA you have tp on everyone... After all I can use [[predator]] to get back to lane quickly in the early game, it's not like I need TP for early return to base. Okay so [[sorcerer's shoes]] it is. After all they're natural for early power. Mobility boots could still work on support Veigar I guess, but agreed it's a bit of a waste on mid Veigar. [quote=Ronyk] Now, [[lich bane]] is an item that theoretically can be built on any AP champion with some success. The reason it’s not usually built on [[Veigar]] is for two reasons: The first is that it’s passive (the cool part about it) doesn’t usually get more than one proc off when [[Veigar]] has it, since [[Veigar]]’s abilities can be chained together to blow somebody up in less than the 1.5 seconds it takes for the lichbane to proc a second time. [/quote] But early game Veigar with only one item can't blow up people instantly yet can he? That's why [[lich bane]] was appealing to me, for the added damage to his combo. If you want to proc it twice on the same guy, you can, right? After all [[event horizon]] lasts enough time for you to do that. I don't get why an item whose main selling point is that sweet low cooldown 50% AP scaling nuke isn't built on the champion with the highest AP in the game. [quote=Ronyk] The second reason is that even though it gives 80 AP, Veigar is paying an awful lot of gold for that 80AP, and it’s not granting any kind of mana regen or magic pen, armor, magic resist, or health. I took the time and looked at a bunch of AP items, did a bit of easy math, and came up with the following: [[Lich Bane]]: 80AP for 3200 Gold (40 G/AP) [[Luden's Echo]]: 100AP for 3200 Gold (32 G/AP) [[Morellonomicon]]: 100AP for 2900 Gold (29 G/AP) [[Nashor's Tooth]]: 80AP for 3000 Gold (37.5 G/AP) [[Rabadon's Deathcap]]: 120 (plus more) AP for 3800 Gold (less than 32 G/AP) [[Rod of Ages]]: 60AP-100AP for 2700 Gold (45-27 G/AP) [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]]: 75AP for 2600 Gold (~35 G/AP) [[Void Staff]]: 80AP (Plus Magic Pen) for 2650 Gold (~33 G/AP) [[Zhonya's Hourglass]]: 70AP for 2900 Gold (~41.5 G/AP) [[Archangel's Staff]]: 80AP for 3100 Gold (39 G/AP) The purpose of those guides is to get an early power spike ([[Morellonomicon]] is so good these days), and to follow through with more affordable AP, Magic Pen, and stats that allow for survivability (Armor/MR/Health), while getting max cooldown reduction along the way. [[Lich Bane]] may have 80AP, but the amount of gold you’re paying per point of ability power is more than almost any other completed item (Out of the ones I looked at, Zhonya’s was the only one that was more expensive per AP, but there may be others). [/quote] But don't the procs from [[lich bane]] give him a better power spike than Morello? That was my logic. Morello and Lich Bane give very similar stats (mana, CDR and AP), but Lich Bane gives a lot of damage with procs while Morello doesn't. [quote=Ronyk] it isn’t [[Veigar]]’s responsibility to initiate fights[/quote] Oh I agree, he's best used as a follow-up, but even then he still needs to be at the right place at the right time when your initiator goes in, that's why mobility is so needed IMO.[/quote]

[quote=Hamstertamer]It seems 8.4 just made the perfect answer to my Veigar problems : [[hextech GLP-800]]. Now that it gives 20% CDR and mana, you can simply rush this every game.[/quote]

[quote=Ronyk]I'm very pleased with the change to the AP items for patch 8.4 - their value is much more standardized, allowing for more variety of builds. Let us know how your games go :)[/quote]

[quote=Hamstertamer][quote=Ronyk] Let us know how your games go :)[/quote] [img=https://image.ibb.co/cmXRmx/vgar.png] Typical Veigar game for me. Go 17/4 carrying silvers and still lose XD [[predator]]/[[ingenious hunter]] is awseome and [[ghost]] is better than [[teleport]] since you can just predator to lane early game. [[lich bane]] is a great late game item because of the 50% AP scaling, but early it's meh.[/quote]