I'll try to keep this reply as short as possible since there's a lot to talk about.
Thanks for taking the time to look through everything and write this out! I can't speak much on the AF-specific features since I'm not closely involved with that site. It's probably a lot easier for the devs to design a dark/light theme when building a new site from the ground up compared to adding it to existing sites. I don't think we currently have plans to port it over. It helps to know this is a feature you'd be interested in though!
> * is a common symbol used to indicate mandatory fields in online forms. Couldn't hurt to add a definition for it somewhere on the page though.
> Devs were probably worried people would stress over the title and not get started on the guide.
> I guess they're kinda big? I'm not really an aesthetics guy so I can't speak on this much.
> Map option makes sense but it also implies a way to filter guides by map in the listings. Devs might have thought that'd be unnecessary / too busy. Could be something we add in the future, I can ask about it.
> Contrast could be improved, I agree.
> Could reduce icon size and fit more in, but it doesn't really solve the issue of only displaying a small fraction of champions. I don't have a better solution beyond what's already there.
> Why is guide skin lame? :(
> I think they're fairly self-evident but I'm also a sucker for hover-text so I agree anyway. :P
> Contrast could be improved again, yep.
> Maybe we can add a themed scroll bar somehow, I'm not really sure how that works. Any conditional things you have in mind besides Smite? That's the only one I can think of that would be reliable. I assume "Show Costs" and "Reset Filters" would fix your issues with those buttons but there also isn't much room there. If we implement map selection we could pre-filter the item list for that map, otherwise I'm not quite sure where we could squeeze that in.
> We experimented a bit with some more automation with the skill selection but it gets really complicated (people like Karma, Udyr, Jayce and Ryze have totally different skilling rules). We couldn't finish it in time for the first version of the builder but we might revisit it later.
> Idk, seems ok to me. Maybe we could start with all of them greyed and highlight the ones that are clicked? I'd be fine either way.
> I get your point with Threats / Synergies but I'm having trouble imagining what you're suggesting as an alternative. Making the threat buttons smaller doesn't buy much space for text. Seems like we'd have to create more horizontal space somehow, since longer descriptions automatically add more vertical space.
> I think a full hexcode color picker would be ideal (rather than the handful of preset colors we have now) but that probably requires some doing. I think we'll do some work on the text box buttons at some point but I don't know when.
> I'll fix those headings, wrote them a while ago before I was able to see the final version of the new builder. Thanks for the kind words. :)
> I don't expect us to add divisions. Riot focuses more on tiers as the main differentiation between players rather than divisions and I think it makes sense for us to do the same.
> Rating bar works the same as before, it just has a different look. Top guides will have the bar nearly full and downvoted guides will show it below 2/3 or so.
> Runes and summoners line up if you add a title to the summoner spells. Without the title, there's a dilemma between misalignment or an oddly blank space between "Spells" and the actual icons. Can't comment on font size, not my forte.
> I believe the text wrapping is necessary or items like
Morellonomicon become unreadable. The misalignment does bug me a little as well, but I'm not sure of a good solution. Can't really comment on the bars vs boxes idea since they both look fine to me (this is why I'm not a graphic designer lol).
> Adding 's makes sense, I agree.
> Seems fine to me on the outside. Do you have a screenshot showing this as an issue? I'm not sure why it would matter since there seems to be a decent amount of space on the right, unless you're on mobile maybe.
> You shouldn't have to deselect anything, just select what threat level and synergy level you want to see. Two clicks instead of one but I don't think that's a huge issue. The white text is a little hard to read. Maybe the red could be a bit less bright or something. Agree with the arrows, could be more obvious. It says the champion's threat/synergy rating just below the champion name. I see what you mean regarding the champ icons moving based on text length, but I'm not sure what a good alternative would be.
> I like the comment box suggestion, though maybe a Discussion button would be more appropriate instead of a small reply box. Either way, making comments more accessible is worth looking into. The author's name on the right should also link to their profile (agreed), I feel like that must have been an oversight.
> Discussion / more guides stuff at the bottom makes sense to me. Maybe the staff had a reason to omit it that I'm unaware of but personally it sounds good to me.
Thanks again for the feedback! Don't feel obligated to respond to everything. If there's a couple points you want to address, feel free. Otherwise if you want to have a more lengthy discussion maybe we should talk on Discord so we don't clog up the thread. :P
jhoijhoi wrote:
Whelp, it took me a while to come back and give some feedback, but I wanted to play around with everything thoroughly first.
// Artifact Website
> Very sleek - will the dark/light option be coming to MobaFire? I had forgotten how strained my eyes would become after guide editing on MobaFire.
// Artifact Website
> Very sleek - will the dark/light option be coming to MobaFire? I had forgotten how strained my eyes would become after guide editing on MobaFire.
Thanks for taking the time to look through everything and write this out! I can't speak much on the AF-specific features since I'm not closely involved with that site. It's probably a lot easier for the devs to design a dark/light theme when building a new site from the ground up compared to adding it to existing sites. I don't think we currently have plans to port it over. It helps to know this is a feature you'd be interested in though!
jhoijhoi wrote:
// Basic Setup Page
> There are * symbols everywhere with no reference at the end. What do they mean? Why are they there?
> Unsure as to why "Don't worry you can edit this later" is necessary.
> The text fields are massive.
> No option for Map? Would make it clearer for the reader whether the guide was for TT, SR or ARAM.
> The lighter blue/grey of selected options (category and role) + brighter blue aren't that obvious. Would be better with extra contrast to show selections - maybe the other options could have lowered opacity when one of the options is selected.
> Icons for champions are way too massive and showing only the first 14 makes me think there are only 14 champions.
> Guide skin is pretty lame now, but I get why you still have it.
> Additional options are unclear - perhaps have hover text to let people know what enabling these features do.
> There are * symbols everywhere with no reference at the end. What do they mean? Why are they there?
> Unsure as to why "Don't worry you can edit this later" is necessary.
> The text fields are massive.
> No option for Map? Would make it clearer for the reader whether the guide was for TT, SR or ARAM.
> The lighter blue/grey of selected options (category and role) + brighter blue aren't that obvious. Would be better with extra contrast to show selections - maybe the other options could have lowered opacity when one of the options is selected.
> Icons for champions are way too massive and showing only the first 14 makes me think there are only 14 champions.
> Guide skin is pretty lame now, but I get why you still have it.
> Additional options are unclear - perhaps have hover text to let people know what enabling these features do.
> * is a common symbol used to indicate mandatory fields in online forms. Couldn't hurt to add a definition for it somewhere on the page though.
> Devs were probably worried people would stress over the title and not get started on the guide.
> I guess they're kinda big? I'm not really an aesthetics guy so I can't speak on this much.
> Map option makes sense but it also implies a way to filter guides by map in the listings. Devs might have thought that'd be unnecessary / too busy. Could be something we add in the future, I can ask about it.
> Contrast could be improved, I agree.
> Could reduce icon size and fit more in, but it doesn't really solve the issue of only displaying a small fraction of champions. I don't have a better solution beyond what's already there.
> Why is guide skin lame? :(
> I think they're fairly self-evident but I'm also a sucker for hover-text so I agree anyway. :P
jhoijhoi wrote:
// Build Options Page
> Spell groups: again, selected summoner spells aren't bright/highlighted enough
> Items: I like this way more, but the scroll bar stands out like a sore thumb. Can there be rules embedded that disable certain items when conditions are met? For example, if the guide doesn't pick Smite, the build shouldn't be able to suggest Hunter's Machete. I don't get why "costs" and "reset" are right next to each other. Costs makes me think it'll calculate something (which it doesn't) and I'm too scared to click Reset, as I assume it'll wipe the purchase order. Would be good to see a group for Map (SR, TT, ARAM) for filtering.
> Abilities: Great layout, but no automatic prevention of overleveling a skill/skilling points in undoable ways.
> Runes: I've made this comment before. Greying out the picked options instead of the unpicked is weird.
> Threats/Synergies: This is much nicer than it used to be. Better to have 5 categories, but 3 would probably be easier for most people to manage. Why have the threat buttons so massive and the text section so small? For people who are trying to give detailed match-ups, the small text field is an inconvenience.
> Spell groups: again, selected summoner spells aren't bright/highlighted enough
> Items: I like this way more, but the scroll bar stands out like a sore thumb. Can there be rules embedded that disable certain items when conditions are met? For example, if the guide doesn't pick
Smite, the build shouldn't be able to suggest Hunter's Machete. I don't get why "costs" and "reset" are right next to each other. Costs makes me think it'll calculate something (which it doesn't) and I'm too scared to click Reset, as I assume it'll wipe the purchase order. Would be good to see a group for Map (SR, TT, ARAM) for filtering.> Abilities: Great layout, but no automatic prevention of overleveling a skill/skilling points in undoable ways.
> Runes: I've made this comment before. Greying out the picked options instead of the unpicked is weird.
> Threats/Synergies: This is much nicer than it used to be. Better to have 5 categories, but 3 would probably be easier for most people to manage. Why have the threat buttons so massive and the text section so small? For people who are trying to give detailed match-ups, the small text field is an inconvenience.
> Contrast could be improved again, yep.
> Maybe we can add a themed scroll bar somehow, I'm not really sure how that works. Any conditional things you have in mind besides Smite? That's the only one I can think of that would be reliable. I assume "Show Costs" and "Reset Filters" would fix your issues with those buttons but there also isn't much room there. If we implement map selection we could pre-filter the item list for that map, otherwise I'm not quite sure where we could squeeze that in.
> We experimented a bit with some more automation with the skill selection but it gets really complicated (people like Karma, Udyr, Jayce and Ryze have totally different skilling rules). We couldn't finish it in time for the first version of the builder but we might revisit it later.
> Idk, seems ok to me. Maybe we could start with all of them greyed and highlight the ones that are clicked? I'd be fine either way.
> I get your point with Threats / Synergies but I'm having trouble imagining what you're suggesting as an alternative. Making the threat buttons smaller doesn't buy much space for text. Seems like we'd have to create more horizontal space somehow, since longer descriptions automatically add more vertical space.
jhoijhoi wrote:
// Guide Chapters Page
> Fine, easily useable. I have no issues with it. Maybe with the colour wheel the actual colours can be show instead of the multicoloured circle, so people know in advance what "Orange" really looks like. Also don't get the arrangement of colours, not alphabetical? In fact, maybe that whole toolbar needs to be updated in terms of icons, they're kind ick.
// Help Page
> Subheadings don't match headings/buttons. "Save as Draft" should just be Save, "Preview/View" should just be "Preview", "Save & Publish" should just be Publish. For Archive, maybe add a small image to show what the toll looks like, as it can be hard to miss.
> Great job, Joev, sums up pretty much every single thing you'd need to know as a guide writer!
> Fine, easily useable. I have no issues with it. Maybe with the colour wheel the actual colours can be show instead of the multicoloured circle, so people know in advance what "Orange" really looks like. Also don't get the arrangement of colours, not alphabetical? In fact, maybe that whole toolbar needs to be updated in terms of icons, they're kind ick.
// Help Page
> Subheadings don't match headings/buttons. "Save as Draft" should just be Save, "Preview/View" should just be "Preview", "Save & Publish" should just be Publish. For Archive, maybe add a small image to show what the toll looks like, as it can be hard to miss.
> Great job, Joev, sums up pretty much every single thing you'd need to know as a guide writer!
> I think a full hexcode color picker would be ideal (rather than the handful of preset colors we have now) but that probably requires some doing. I think we'll do some work on the text box buttons at some point but I don't know when.
> I'll fix those headings, wrote them a while ago before I was able to see the final version of the new builder. Thanks for the kind words. :)
jhoijhoi wrote:
// Actual Guide Page
> The rank icons are kinda flat looking compared to all other graphics. Might be useful to show what tier of rank (ie Gold V) so there's no confusion.
> Rating bar doesn't really tell me anything though.
> The non-alignment of the runes/summoner spell round icons is a little unpleasant, as are the different sized fonts.
> I think the boxes around the purchase orders are unnecessary. Why not go with the thin bars as per the runes? Less wasted space then too. If the item name is too long, it spills over to another line instead of shrinking (see Bloodthirster). It also extends the box downwards and makes surrounding boxes look misaligned because they're smaller.
> "Ashe Passive Ability" - should be "Ashe's"
> Notes for the Ability Order float outside the guide on the right hand side, should switch to floating inside the guide.
> Threats/Synergies: The white on red when a threat level is selected is super hard to read and eye-strain inducing. I don't get why the "extreme" and "ideal" champions are automatically selected to show. Clicking "Show All" highlights all numbers glaringly and then doesn't allow me to click it again to remove selection - have to manually deselect all buttons. The little double-arrow functionality is so neat, but almost completely hidden. Using the "Find Champion" search highlights all numbers - not clear which threat/synergy the champion is. Kinda annoying that the length of the text dictates where the other champion icons will be - clicking between different champions of the same threat can mean you scrolling/jumping all over the place.
> Colour scheme for the guide body is better than it used to be.
> I like the increased body size too.
> I don't like how the only way to leave comments is at the very top of the page. Shouldn't there be a comment box that scrolls with you, right under the voting bar? It'd also be nice to be able to click on some text or buttons that direct/show you the author's other guides on MobaFire, or similar guides, if they don't have any. Even being able to click on the author's name or avatar to navigate to their profile or PM them would be great.
> I feel like without the discussion/more guides/Q&A bar at the bottom, the guide ends too abruptly. MobaFire needs to prompt more interaction/discussion/comments, so reducing the places to do that seems like poor planning.
> The rank icons are kinda flat looking compared to all other graphics. Might be useful to show what tier of rank (ie Gold V) so there's no confusion.
> Rating bar doesn't really tell me anything though.
> The non-alignment of the runes/summoner spell round icons is a little unpleasant, as are the different sized fonts.
> I think the boxes around the purchase orders are unnecessary. Why not go with the thin bars as per the runes? Less wasted space then too. If the item name is too long, it spills over to another line instead of shrinking (see Bloodthirster). It also extends the box downwards and makes surrounding boxes look misaligned because they're smaller.
> "Ashe Passive Ability" - should be "Ashe's"
> Notes for the Ability Order float outside the guide on the right hand side, should switch to floating inside the guide.
> Threats/Synergies: The white on red when a threat level is selected is super hard to read and eye-strain inducing. I don't get why the "extreme" and "ideal" champions are automatically selected to show. Clicking "Show All" highlights all numbers glaringly and then doesn't allow me to click it again to remove selection - have to manually deselect all buttons. The little double-arrow functionality is so neat, but almost completely hidden. Using the "Find Champion" search highlights all numbers - not clear which threat/synergy the champion is. Kinda annoying that the length of the text dictates where the other champion icons will be - clicking between different champions of the same threat can mean you scrolling/jumping all over the place.
> Colour scheme for the guide body is better than it used to be.
> I like the increased body size too.
> I don't like how the only way to leave comments is at the very top of the page. Shouldn't there be a comment box that scrolls with you, right under the voting bar? It'd also be nice to be able to click on some text or buttons that direct/show you the author's other guides on MobaFire, or similar guides, if they don't have any. Even being able to click on the author's name or avatar to navigate to their profile or PM them would be great.
> I feel like without the discussion/more guides/Q&A bar at the bottom, the guide ends too abruptly. MobaFire needs to prompt more interaction/discussion/comments, so reducing the places to do that seems like poor planning.
> I don't expect us to add divisions. Riot focuses more on tiers as the main differentiation between players rather than divisions and I think it makes sense for us to do the same.
> Rating bar works the same as before, it just has a different look. Top guides will have the bar nearly full and downvoted guides will show it below 2/3 or so.
> Runes and summoners line up if you add a title to the summoner spells. Without the title, there's a dilemma between misalignment or an oddly blank space between "Spells" and the actual icons. Can't comment on font size, not my forte.
> I believe the text wrapping is necessary or items like
Morellonomicon become unreadable. The misalignment does bug me a little as well, but I'm not sure of a good solution. Can't really comment on the bars vs boxes idea since they both look fine to me (this is why I'm not a graphic designer lol).> Adding 's makes sense, I agree.
> Seems fine to me on the outside. Do you have a screenshot showing this as an issue? I'm not sure why it would matter since there seems to be a decent amount of space on the right, unless you're on mobile maybe.
> You shouldn't have to deselect anything, just select what threat level and synergy level you want to see. Two clicks instead of one but I don't think that's a huge issue. The white text is a little hard to read. Maybe the red could be a bit less bright or something. Agree with the arrows, could be more obvious. It says the champion's threat/synergy rating just below the champion name. I see what you mean regarding the champ icons moving based on text length, but I'm not sure what a good alternative would be.
> I like the comment box suggestion, though maybe a Discussion button would be more appropriate instead of a small reply box. Either way, making comments more accessible is worth looking into. The author's name on the right should also link to their profile (agreed), I feel like that must have been an oversight.
> Discussion / more guides stuff at the bottom makes sense to me. Maybe the staff had a reason to omit it that I'm unaware of but personally it sounds good to me.
jhoijhoi wrote:
// Overall Thoughts
> I very much prefer this builder version to the last, as well as how the guide cheat-sheet and chapters look. Thank you for updating things. I think a few aspects need polish and I hope I articulated my thoughts well enough. Again, thanks for making things more accessible to people who want to share their ideas with avid League players :)
Cheers,
jhoi
> I very much prefer this builder version to the last, as well as how the guide cheat-sheet and chapters look. Thank you for updating things. I think a few aspects need polish and I hope I articulated my thoughts well enough. Again, thanks for making things more accessible to people who want to share their ideas with avid League players :)
Cheers,
jhoi
Thanks again for the feedback! Don't feel obligated to respond to everything. If there's a couple points you want to address, feel free. Otherwise if you want to have a more lengthy discussion maybe we should talk on Discord so we don't clog up the thread. :P
Thanks to Hoppermh for the sig!
Aaaand I'm back, this time with not something that was my mistake making me a fool *coff*
I encountered a strange bug when creating a guide from scratch, so not by updating one.
I was creating an item set for the shoes and I noticed this while hovering casually over the items:
I added actually the mobi boots before, but removed them immediatly after because of a misclick. I tried with a different pair of boots and then removing the second to last item to see if the boots acquired the other description. This was the result:
So, I tried removing and adding again the item and it actually changed the description:
tl;dr to replicate the bug: delete an item that has something after it, delete the following item and re-add it to obtain the bug.
edit: this has nothing to do with the previous thing, but isn't it possible to delete drafts anymore? I can't find the option anywhere
I encountered a strange bug when creating a guide from scratch, so not by updating one.
I was creating an item set for the shoes and I noticed this while hovering casually over the items:
I added actually the mobi boots before, but removed them immediatly after because of a misclick. I tried with a different pair of boots and then removing the second to last item to see if the boots acquired the other description. This was the result:
So, I tried removing and adding again the item and it actually changed the description:
tl;dr to replicate the bug: delete an item that has something after it, delete the following item and re-add it to obtain the bug.
edit: this has nothing to do with the previous thing, but isn't it possible to delete drafts anymore? I can't find the option anywhere
@ Chromuro does this bug persist past the creation stage? Like if you edit the guide again later, does the wrong description still show? I'm also wondering if it shows the wrong tooltip on the published view of the guide (what readers see) or just in the editor.
As to your second question, I don't think regular users have ever had deletion privileges (could be wrong, it's been a while since I was a normal user). If you need a draft deleted just send me a link and I can delete it for you if you like.
As to your second question, I don't think regular users have ever had deletion privileges (could be wrong, it's been a while since I was a normal user). If you need a draft deleted just send me a link and I can delete it for you if you like.
Thanks to Minho for the sig!
Nope, if I close the editor and then reopen it it fixes itself, but if you follow the same procedure the bug reappears; and nope x2, the wrong tooltip seems to show only in the editor.
I think at least we were able to delete draft (only drafts, not published/archived guides) since I remember that I deleted one a long time ago, but I fear that my memory could betray me, so I'm not 100% sure. And don't worry, they can remain there in my profile hidden from the world for the time being, ty anyway :^
I think at least we were able to delete draft (only drafts, not published/archived guides) since I remember that I deleted one a long time ago, but I fear that my memory could betray me, so I'm not 100% sure. And don't worry, they can remain there in my profile hidden from the world for the time being, ty anyway :^
MHLoppy wrote:
Hey, when editing item sets, what does the "Set Group" addition actually do in the new editor? When I preview I don't see any change with or without one included.
Seems to work like that:
Try dragging some item sets into it in the editor if you want to see it.
Maintained wrote:
Seems to work like that:
Ohhhh. I genuinely tried to do that before asking and couldn't manage to get an item set into the group, but I guess I must've been doing it wrong somehow because it's working fine now. Thanks!
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Like, even if you set them and publish, they stay only for some time (about 1 day) and then they're erased.
We recently fixed a bug with summoner spells disappearing, so this shouldn't be happening anymore. If you experience this bug again please let us know.
I'll reply in a bit Jhoijhoi. ;)