Sheep Votes, worse then Troll Votes: Downvotes...

[quote=Scrax]It would make them appear less up-front on the frontpage. The user would actually have to access the guide to see it is recommended. There was also suggested that when a Veteran recommends, he is obligated to leave a detailed reason (this is not connected to our discussion btw, just extra info). Whats your thought on that?[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Scrax] It would make them appear less up-front on the frontpage. The user would actually have to access the guide to see it is recommended. There was also suggested that when a Veteran recommends, he is obligated to leave a detailed reason (this is not connected to our discussion btw, just extra info). Whats your thought on that? [/quote] Wouldn't that lead users comfortable with mobafire to just spam-search for recommended guides? It may lower the sheep-voting a little, but not by much and just make guide-picking longer for sheep-voters. "Hmm... reccommends dont show on the search anymore... Oh!" *click click click click click* "No badge, no badge, no badge, OH HERE WE GO!" And last I checked, the badges don't link to vet comments. A lot of people tend not to give a dam about comments, and only go by the surface information if it's not convenient access (like the first page) This is especially true for high-comment guides. Example: You think anyone wants to search through that top Tryndamere guide for veteran comments?! It's got 800+ fricking comments!! EDIT: This would also do zero to draw attention to bad guides. Something I think is painfully overlooked. Just because it's bad doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a solid and reliable rating. If the user sees what's wrong with it and wants to make a new guide, they can archive it and start fresh. There's also always a possibility it's just troll-voted down.[/quote]

[quote=Scrax]They might, or they might not. People would also perhaps settle with reading the guide they actually visit. I mean; the reason is attached to the recommendation. The entire recommendation badge/preview would need a work-over. So, no, I wouldn't expect anyone to go through 100+ comments :P[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Scrax] They might, or they might not. People would also perhaps settle with reading the guide they actually visit. [/quote] ... I know everyone likes to believe humanity's full of intelligence but... You want to give the sheep-voters the benefit of the doubt...? Think that through a little. :P[/quote]

[quote=Scrax]I think we should, actually. I mean.. The system is always improving, but you should always try every angle. Why not try that, before going into the extreme?[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@Scrax: Although I accept your sentiment, I enjoy going to the extreme, because the extremes is easy. ( In this case, it's extra easy cause I wouldn't be the one doing the coding) Extreme methods are decisive methods! They get things done! :) Trying to encourage people to do the right thing and understand people is great, but this is a game not a doctor's ward or school; the more humane methods are too time-consuming, imo. And, although I do believe in giving individual people second chances, I'm going to rephrase my statement. "You want to give the dozens to hundreds of users, many with the tendency to conform and NOT think for themselves, to which we have no reliable way to influence their better judgment aside from shiny icons, the benefit of the doubt...?" If so, I hope you never be on the jury for my murderer. Who will slay me in my sleep someday, because I talked too much. :P And, I guess I'll have to be the devil's advocate.[/quote]

[quote=FlashJ]Voting should be anonymous. FlashJ[/quote]

[quote=Scrax]Thats the thing with a community; You have to give them the benefit of the doubt. The community made MOBAFire, so the community will be there to shape it. Thats just how it is :)[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn][quote=JunSupport]@Jebus: Shouldn't recommends be towards chmapions you're familiar with? Not just guides that look well-written? [/quote] I wholeheartedly agree. This was one of my concerns with the new system - I didn't catch it, but hindsight is 20/20 after all. This was completely my fault for overlooking it in the suggestions. Anyway, the theme of having to use recommendations to spotlight good good guides when a new champ is flawed - I'll admit. So that was probably a poor move to not mention - perhaps the option of simply letting veterans/mods/admins vote on new champs when other people cannot would be better. I don't know. Whenever a new champ comes out, the voting all goes to hell anyway. Really, Solomid has the perfect but the most biased voting system - their board of high-ELO members decide which builds are good and which are not, catering to mostly a high-ELO community. So we can't really do that, or match anything like it. The voting system on a community site like MOBAFire or Leaguecraft is fundamentally flawed, and I'm not sure that there is any obvious way to fix it. EDIT: I would also like to point out that vet recommendations aren't always towards the best guide. Trundle's Caketown guide is the best Trundle build on the site, I believe, yet it's not first. The same goes for Jet's Gangplank guide. But yes, for the most part, I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying - pointing no faults at anyone, as this is something the community needs to take responsibility for, not any individuals.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Jebus McAzn] Anyway, the theme of having to use recommendations to spotlight good good guides when a new champ is flawed - I'll admit. Whenever a new champ comes out, the voting all goes to hell anyway. ... The voting system on a community site like MOBAFire or Leaguecraft is fundamentally flawed, and I'm not sure that there is any obvious way to fix it.[/quote] Here's a thought. For the first week of a champion's release. Block all guides from being published regarding Nocturne for the first week. :D In it's place, put the Riot Champion Spotlight put in place of the guide list. Give build-hungry users something to look at. When the new-champ frenzy dies down, guide-restrictions are lifted, and serious guides can duke it out. The frenzy is guaranteed to be over, because first-impressions of the champion will be completed, and a new-champ sneak-peek will be out to drive everyone mad in a new way. Yes, I'm aware that there would be much rage over it. But, it would give guide-makers real game-time with champions beyond a single day. And, it's a stronger voting system we're after, right? [quote=Jebus McAzn] EDIT: I would also like to point out that vet recommendations aren't always towards the best guide. Trundle's Caketown guide is the best Trundle build on the site, I believe, yet it's not first. The same goes for Jet's Gangplank guide.[/quote] In none of my posts here have I used the word "[u]best[/u]." I always regarded ratings as simply that ratings. How well people did with them. To consider any guide the best for the champion overlooks the different adjustments in runes, spells, masteries, and item-paths a champion needs have the potential for optimum performance when placed in different team compositions or up against different enemies. If this is how most veterans view the ranking system, I'm very disappionted. :/ Each guide is only one facet of a champion's potential, and I would presume the Trundle or Gangplank builds you refer to are just the most effective in their aspect. (and you don't recommend them merely because they fall out of your preference)[/quote]