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Sheep Votes, worse then Troll Votes: Downvotes...

Creator: JunSupport March 22, 2011 12:35pm
JunSupport
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 12:04am | Report
@Adonikam:

Very true. Can't say I'd be against it now. :3
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 12:05am | Report
What did I say, again? O.o
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Do you mean me? lol

JHOIJHOI IS THE BESTEST PERSON IN THE WHOLE WORLD AND THIS SIG IS AMAZING TY <3
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 1:04am | Report
Oops.

Fixed. ROFL.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 2:11am | Report
Why do posts like this pop up when i am sleeping (screw US timezones!)

First of all a bit of quoting myself from Vet forum:
Quoted:


Believe me... Admins would love to get that **** removed... and tbh so do i... eventho i might be hypocrite since the 1st topic on this forum was my Petition about implementing something about votes but it's been a long way since than.

Now the system is balanced on the % score, the platform greatly supports new guides, so they can get noticed among old ones, there are new stuff inc to even more support up to date guides and so on so on.

You cant take it away now. Too many ppl (including vets) depend on this kind of rating. also, it would be unfair for others that didnt implement it, their guides got way more troll votes and are much lower on the % score.

I think that 90% of the guides at this moment have this option enabled.

So removing this feature... i dont see it... in any way.

What we COULD do and what we SHOULD focus on is not how to get rid of troll votes or those QQ babies (which also includes vets! lol?) is how to get ppl vote more, and vote on more builds. This way we would have everything covered (i think).
I believe in human and our community. That it is big enaugh to cover those trolls. For example my Yi build is quite popular it has the best overall score in Yi builds eventho it has 106 downvotes (only 1 comment was constructive and explaied why i got -1 rest got either "you suck" or no comment at all (it is an open guide!) so 1/7 of my guide with over 700 votes is trolled!) eventho the guide is succesful, why? becouse it got alot of votes.

We should focus on that. Not on removing the feature that 90% of ppl accualy use. Imagine the drawback on that decision.

The thing that comes in my my mind is that we could make it less crucial. For example it would get automaticly turned off when the guide reaches 30?/40?/50? votes?

So on the topic. I am against of removing it, eventho i hate it.

Also you have to answer a simple question you are tired of the feature or the crybabies that abuse it on forums?


Other than that regarding 1st post here done my JunSupport
1st of all thx for sharing your thoughts with us. I like threads like this that are constructive and realy moves stuff around here.

Quoted:
No offense to all the vets and mods, but veterans don't necessarily guarantee expert judgment.

It is not working that way in my eyes. I am not som1 that throws many vet recommendations around but for me this is a feature that lets us decide that guide even if it is not that good contains some valuable info, is written in nice style, has some interesting ideas, or just deserves to get noticed. Vets/Mods arent omnipotent, if we were this site would and should contain only our builds that would never ever fail since we are so omnipotent. It is our version of "I like it". We got our vet/mod status so we got a bit of a privledge to give som1 my "like" medal. I might give it to a friend if i wish. That is my will.
Also this is just another tool in order to ppl recognise more guides not only those top rated ones. And in my eyes as quoted above THIS IS THE MOST IMPORATNT THING ATM. And if recommendations help it, i have no issues with it.

Quoted:
I personally think this is a case of "Sheep" votes. Sheep that vote guides up mindlessly, because it happened to be at the top of the list, and "oh" it also has a verteran recommend.


I would feel offended when som1 would tell me that to my face. You shouldnt think that most ppl just vote on the guide becouse others did it. I have hope in community here and i realy think that most ppl vote after trying the builds.
Ofc there are ppl that see that this guide will fail since they take Rabadon on Garen and vote before trying.


Quoted:
Let me be perfectly clear in saying, as a personal thing, I LIKE there being less troll-votes and hearing people's comments when they are positive.
It makes me happy. However, I'm sad to say the mandatory comments aren't helping.


I totaly agree on this one. My weapon of choice is comment. I VERY rarely vote. I rather leave a comment what i like and what i dont like about a build/guide rather than vote up or down.
So i would say that DV arent realy helpfull either... the comments are... which leads us to... removing votes at all? But than again we would be stuck with comments/views and additive sideeffect of this.

Quoted:
I remember reading a thread, with many vet's saying something similar to "I don't downvote, I just leave criticisms."
To that I respond: WHY?!


Becouse we can. That is free will and if something is good enaugh i am sure that even if they say they leave critisizm only they will eventualy vote up, and if they see a pure spam, they will DV it too.
In most situations they like the guide but it has some flaws. So it deserves a +0. So they leave a comment to help the creator.

Quoted:
Most guides demonstrate how a person plays a champion. Not voting, and only critiquing means you're trying to change how they play the champion.
Some people may take the advice, but some may not. That won't change the fact that you didn't choose to downvote it. It didn't get dropped, so there's potential


No? I dont want to change anyone playstyle! God forbid! If som1 owns with AP Yi i let them play it but i also suggest that in my eyes there is another way of playing and in my eyes it is more vital. I hate ppl that play AP yi since in my eyes this is a total waste for the team but i dont want to DV anyone coz he plays like this.
Some ppl may take the advice and start to play AD as well but i doubt that they will swap their playstyle due to som1 comment. It is too personal in my eyes.

Quoted:
Downvotes are important.
Without them, the system would break. (I have suspicions that it's already broken atm)


I cant agree. DV arent imporant, it is just a "feature". VOTES are important. No matter if they are + or -. More votes create more precise view on the build itself. Lets focus on this. More votes = better judgment. DV is just a 1/2 of the deal in that.

Quoted:
A voting system isn't suppose to be the land of milk and honey.


Agreed.

Quoted:
There need to be troll votes to fence in sheep votes. Good guides will get good votes, but veteran badges are making them get too many good votes.


Not nessesary. Troll votes are somethign we dont want here. But we cant stop it. Vet badge is not changing in my eyes the situation. It only makes builds a bit more visible and so on they get more votes and system works that way that more votes = better score since it gives a penality for low amount of votes so we wouldnt see a milion 100% guides with 1/1 votes.

Quoted:
he lowering the troll votes was like elimination of wolves that ate rabbits.
Now the bunnies ate mating like...well, rabbits!! And, now we've got too many fricking bunny rabbits!!!


Semo agreed, We dont want wolves. We like bunnies since they are cute and if we got many bunnies more ppl would come and look at them. They wont look at ugly wolves. They want more cute bunnies.
In other words, we dont want trolls, we dont want bad builds, we want planty great builds with diferent ideas and so on.

Quoted:
1. Anonymous comments.


I agree with you (and FlashJ) on this one.
I was even fighting that if we implement comment2vote the ppl should remain annonymous to protect them from revenge votes.

Quoted:
2. Veteran Comment-Links over Recommendation Badges.


Works as intended. I wouldnt change this feature at all.
We should even implement MORE features like this to encourage more voting!

Quoted:
3. No Guide-Publishing for the first 4~5 days of a new champion's release.

It is done already.


TL;DR?

Than IDGAF... read it... i wrote so take your freakin time to at least read it or leave the topic at once!


EDIT:
OMG that was long... and ppl say that i stopped at post count :P
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Thanks to jhoijhoi for the sig!
JunSupport
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 11:40am | Report
@DEWO:

DEWO wrote:
I cant agree. DV arent imporant, it is just a "feature". VOTES are important. No matter if they are + or -. More votes create more precise view on the build itself. Lets focus on this. More votes = better judgment. DV is just a 1/2 of the deal in that.


That's odd thinking.
If votes are important, downvotes should have equal viability to upvotes. But, the way the system is now, downvotes are highly looked down upon by the average user, and upvotes are loved by everyone.

Too much positive ratings only leads to more difficulty to discern between guide qualities.
If everything between "okay" to "awesome" were to really be 90%+, there would be a problem.

I'm not saying Troll Votes are ideal, but it's all that can be naturally obtained without pissing off or scaring off users.

DEWO wrote:
Not nessesary. Troll votes are somethign we dont want here. But we cant stop it. Vet badge is not changing in my eyes the situation. It only makes builds a bit more visible and so on they get more votes and system works that way that more votes = better score since it gives a penality for low amount of votes so we wouldnt see a milion 100% guides with 1/1 votes.


I'm well aware of the basian system. It's great, it's why I prefer MobaFire.
However, it vet badges tend to draw high vote inflation.

There's nothing to encourage honest downvotes. You may not think it's important, but having guides earnestly downvoted keeps the rankings more accurate. (reinforced by my above statement)

DEWO wrote:
It is done already.


Restricted publishing? Is it?

I thought it was just restricted voting. Nocturne guides were released on date, but no one could vote until past the 4 day point.
Sure you know what's going on here? XD
~ Gentlemen Cho'Gath ~
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< ,....,ರೃ>
~ Keeping this sig classy ~

Guides of Mine - Click the... Eh... Come back later

~Undergoing barbaric-Destruction, tasteful-Renovation, and blasphemous-Reconstruction soon™~
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wRAthoFVuLK
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 12:23pm | Report
sorry if this has already been mentioned or something, I'm on my iPod right now in a hospital so I dont have time to read much of this thread...just wanted to say, DVs have more of an impact than UVs, and as such troll votes are more of an issue than sheep votes.
just sayin'.

Thanks to TRUeLM, Plastictree, Scrax, Xiaowiriamu, foggy12, JahGFX, jhoijhoi, msrobinson, JEFFY40HANDS, Nyoike, MissMaw, and me :) for the sigs!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 12:28pm | Report
You should read the thread a bit more thoroughly when you get home - the issue here is that there are so many sheep votes that the DV's aren't making the impact that they're supposed to.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 6:12pm | Report
yea well, if they made more impact, the trolls would actually succeed in making some people cry.

xD

Thanks to TRUeLM, Plastictree, Scrax, Xiaowiriamu, foggy12, JahGFX, jhoijhoi, msrobinson, JEFFY40HANDS, Nyoike, MissMaw, and me :) for the sigs!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep March 23, 2011 6:17pm | Report
ALRIGHT can we get something CLEAR. DOWN-VOTES AREN'T TROLL VOTES. TROLL VOTES ARE AN ATTEMPT TO FLAME OR INDUCE RAGE IN SOMEONE BY BEING A SMART-ARSE. IF SOMEONE DOWNVOTES IT DOESN'T MAKE THEM A TROLL.

/rage
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