Well said Mowen :)
These guys work hard to keep you guys happy.
Hey, they could just sit back and do nothing.
Then the site would kinda look like...
Scrax.
What?
These guys work hard to keep you guys happy.
Hey, they could just sit back and do nothing.
Then the site would kinda look like...
Scrax.
What?
Thanks to TRUeLM, Plastictree, Scrax, Xiaowiriamu, foggy12, JahGFX, jhoijhoi, msrobinson, JEFFY40HANDS, Nyoike, MissMaw, and me :) for the sigs!
Please keep it on topic. Anyways, Scrax has a point. People were scared to downvote because of retaliation. Would you not agree? If I strongly disagreed on a guide, I'd go ahead, but perhaps I value the score on my own guides. Even though my guide is the best guide in the world, when people are upset/mad, they do **** out of rage. I mean think about, you spent hours on your guide only to be -1'ed out of retaliation. That's uncool. Now if it was legitimately bad, the -1 was well made.
When it comes to the 20 Vote CTV, it's a crutch. It generally allows your guide to get some critique from others. Whether it may just be "GJ" or "+1", it's still some critique from others. However, I strongly hope that you can get some constructive feedback that is detailed with several sentences or paragraphs! We all come here to improve as a player, and to join the evergrowing community if we wish to take part in it.
TL;DR - New change allows voters to freely vote without being afraid of retaliation. New change gives your guide a crutch to get your feet a little wet from the community. After, it's like graduating from High School. You're on your own now, and hopefully, your prerequisites (Elementary, Middle, High School) have taught you well and you are now prepared for life. Your guide is then grown up *tear*.
When it comes to the 20 Vote CTV, it's a crutch. It generally allows your guide to get some critique from others. Whether it may just be "GJ" or "+1", it's still some critique from others. However, I strongly hope that you can get some constructive feedback that is detailed with several sentences or paragraphs! We all come here to improve as a player, and to join the evergrowing community if we wish to take part in it.
TL;DR - New change allows voters to freely vote without being afraid of retaliation. New change gives your guide a crutch to get your feet a little wet from the community. After, it's like graduating from High School. You're on your own now, and hopefully, your prerequisites (Elementary, Middle, High School) have taught you well and you are now prepared for life. Your guide is then grown up *tear*.
@XLZ, really? TWO down votes and you're gonna blame trolls and throw in the towel? Is it not possible that there are two people in this world that genuinely didn't find your guide useful? And once again I will say it, the score is not there for the authors, it is there for the readers. If they had any interest in commenting they would have, but if all they want to do is help us rank guides then I'm just glad they're contributing.
@Mowen, thanks for the pep talk :) We are grateful to everyone that helps us make this site a better place. Mods, Vets, authors and readers.
@Mowen, thanks for the pep talk :) We are grateful to everyone that helps us make this site a better place. Mods, Vets, authors and readers.
Dotter
<Member>
<Member>
I have a question. Why didn't you just remove the "comment to vote" function again? Does the 20 votes really do that much? I know feedback is nice, but it's often only really experienced players or vets, who give constructive and detailed feedback. And if a GOOD guide gets trolled fast, then people won't see it, maybe only because of 1-2-3 downvotes. I have seen other good guides (imo), who was downvoted early, only to see their guide be used way less, than the top-rated guide for the given champion. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, not at all. I love that the admins on mobafire are working so hard for the community. Just remember that the guidemakers also do it volunteerly, so spending hours on a guide, which is getting downvoted to 60% might suck, if you've put a lot of effort into it. I know that there are a lot of guides lacking descriptions, quality etc.. What I write here may sound untidy/messy, I'm tired right now xD
I'm just trying to understand how the change affects the site that much, except guides generally gets lower ratings (Which is fine, cause way too many guides get above 90%)
20 votes is enough to either make it or break for a guide. 2 downvotes early might hit it to 50-60% and then there's a slight chance it will be completely ignored. And if they have 2-5 downvotes relatively quick after then 20 votes, then the guide will go really low.
Shouldn't people simply grow a pair and start giving their real opinion? Xaioli wrote about growing up, shouldn't a grown-up be able to stand up for himself/herself and not be afraid of a raging guidemaker? I've been pissed myself, but only when people write nfdkjsnfkj with a downvote, cause there's no point in doing that. They could at least have written "Not my playstyle" or "Bad item build" or whatsoever.
I think many of the veterans disagree with me, but this is my opinion, and I'll stand up for it. We all have different views on things, so I think the "you don't understand it" attitude towards people, who disagree with the changes is wrong. This is a forum, so there should be room for opinions, at least when there is a reason to have the given opinion.
The guides are to help others, but humans simply have a hard time taking critique, that's how it is. It will always feel better to see your work get acknowledged. I admit that I'd like my guides to be rated higher, but if people don't feel they are that good, then that's how it is. No one can make me think, that my guides are bad, if I felt that way, I'd never have posted them on this site. I don't know if that's a general feeling on mobafire, but I know for sure that humans like to get acknowledged and they want a reason to be critized. I just think that I'm "upset", because I think it sucks that such changes is necessary, because people are afraid to comment and vote, the way the feel like - Don't take this comment as a critique of the actual changes. It is more of a critique of current state of people's behaviour on mobafire. (not all people, but some).
I'll stop rambling now, before it gets too much out of the topic.. I just wanted to get it out there..
I have repped you Matt, for a great job on this site. Keep going dawg.
I'm just trying to understand how the change affects the site that much, except guides generally gets lower ratings (Which is fine, cause way too many guides get above 90%)
20 votes is enough to either make it or break for a guide. 2 downvotes early might hit it to 50-60% and then there's a slight chance it will be completely ignored. And if they have 2-5 downvotes relatively quick after then 20 votes, then the guide will go really low.
Shouldn't people simply grow a pair and start giving their real opinion? Xaioli wrote about growing up, shouldn't a grown-up be able to stand up for himself/herself and not be afraid of a raging guidemaker? I've been pissed myself, but only when people write nfdkjsnfkj with a downvote, cause there's no point in doing that. They could at least have written "Not my playstyle" or "Bad item build" or whatsoever.
I think many of the veterans disagree with me, but this is my opinion, and I'll stand up for it. We all have different views on things, so I think the "you don't understand it" attitude towards people, who disagree with the changes is wrong. This is a forum, so there should be room for opinions, at least when there is a reason to have the given opinion.
The guides are to help others, but humans simply have a hard time taking critique, that's how it is. It will always feel better to see your work get acknowledged. I admit that I'd like my guides to be rated higher, but if people don't feel they are that good, then that's how it is. No one can make me think, that my guides are bad, if I felt that way, I'd never have posted them on this site. I don't know if that's a general feeling on mobafire, but I know for sure that humans like to get acknowledged and they want a reason to be critized. I just think that I'm "upset", because I think it sucks that such changes is necessary, because people are afraid to comment and vote, the way the feel like - Don't take this comment as a critique of the actual changes. It is more of a critique of current state of people's behaviour on mobafire. (not all people, but some).
I'll stop rambling now, before it gets too much out of the topic.. I just wanted to get it out there..
I have repped you Matt, for a great job on this site. Keep going dawg.
Downvotes have more of an impact the less votes you have. When it's below 20 votes the impact is tremendous. When new guides have c2v "protection" they have more of a chance of being seen / competing with current top guides. Once they get popular enough they no longer need c2v, they get enough people voting on them anyways to decrease the effect one vote has.
Also a lot of people liked c2v, but a lot of people didn't. We wanted to find a middle ground, a way to move to more fair votes without completely removing c2v. This softens the blow to new guides / guide writers. We're not saying it's perfect, or the best way, but we feel like it's a more accurate assessment than complete c2v, while still helping new guides start out.
At least that's how I took it.
Also a lot of people liked c2v, but a lot of people didn't. We wanted to find a middle ground, a way to move to more fair votes without completely removing c2v. This softens the blow to new guides / guide writers. We're not saying it's perfect, or the best way, but we feel like it's a more accurate assessment than complete c2v, while still helping new guides start out.
At least that's how I took it.
Thanks to Minho for my sig!
Dotter
<Member>
<Member>
Mowen:
I'm not 100% sure if that was an answer to my comment, since it wasn't quoted, but it seems like you answered me. xD
I've edited my comment, since I didn't feel like I stated all the things I thought about.
I do believe that the changes might help new guides, but it can also be a problem to "semi-new" guides, which are in between low and top rated guides, since that's when they are most vulnerable to trolling or simply downvotes, at least imo and from experience.
And yes, it probably is more accurate and I really like that. I'm just trying to see if we, as a community, can find the best way to help new guides, while still giving "semi-new" guides a chance.
Dunno if you know what I mean, but I hope so.
I'm not 100% sure if that was an answer to my comment, since it wasn't quoted, but it seems like you answered me. xD
I've edited my comment, since I didn't feel like I stated all the things I thought about.
I do believe that the changes might help new guides, but it can also be a problem to "semi-new" guides, which are in between low and top rated guides, since that's when they are most vulnerable to trolling or simply downvotes, at least imo and from experience.
And yes, it probably is more accurate and I really like that. I'm just trying to see if we, as a community, can find the best way to help new guides, while still giving "semi-new" guides a chance.
Dunno if you know what I mean, but I hope so.
Dotter
<Member>
<Member>
Also, guides probably won't reach 90% as often anymore, so some guides may actually be affected by downvotes (This makes it more accurate, but also more vulnerable to trollers)
+ Thanks for the explanations on the changes, it helped me understand it a bit better :)
+ Thanks for the explanations on the changes, it helped me understand it a bit better :)
Pros:
-Less trolling, less fun for trolls
-Many more honest votes
-More accurate guide ranks
-Significantly less fighting amongst authors
-No more unnaturally inflated scores
-New guides still have the option of a security blanket (20 votes can take quite a while)
-New guides get a slight boost to their score to help them compete with established guides, but not so much of a boost that it is cheating
Cons:
-More crying and paranoia from certain authors
-Lower scores all around (but accurate rank, which is vital)
Did I miss anything? :)
-Less trolling, less fun for trolls
-Many more honest votes
-More accurate guide ranks
-Significantly less fighting amongst authors
-No more unnaturally inflated scores
-New guides still have the option of a security blanket (20 votes can take quite a while)
-New guides get a slight boost to their score to help them compete with established guides, but not so much of a boost that it is cheating
Cons:
-More crying and paranoia from certain authors
-Lower scores all around (but accurate rank, which is vital)
Did I miss anything? :)
You need to log in before commenting.
And thank you DEWO, Jebus, and Scrax. For not getting PAID to do busywork like filtering through reports and monitoring the forums. All you other guys out there realize that this isn't their job right? They're basically volunteers for YOU and they keep the site clean for YOU. Every time you have a problem and hit that report button, they are giving up THEIR time for YOU!
I don't care what you think about the c2v system, you guys should be thankful to them because they are working very hard, and in the mods cases not even getting any kind've monetary compensation. Like I said Matt and FlashJ don't have to listen to you to make money, but they take their time filtering through the support sections and conversing with you guys for YOUR sake not theirs.
I haven't even been on the site that long, but I've seen it change A LOT and improve and improve. Because Matt and FlashJ listen to the community and try to make them happy. Maybe not EVERYBODY in the community is happy with EVERY change, but hey, the site is getting better and better whether you like it or not.
So thanks guys, I don't care what you do, but I know you are all working hard to make this site better because you care about it. I would high five you all if I could.
*internet high fives*