Lack of AD ranged carries

[quote=Atarios]^ I guess so, Its the coolest initiate though :P P.S THIS WAS ABOUT AD RANGED CARRIES. WHY THE HELL WE TALKING BOUT TANKS[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]They haven't found the best ways to play this game / play different champs yet. Which is why we have metagames and different builds. Making more ranged AD champs would lead to a chaotic game. They need to stabilize the game before making more game changing champs aka Ranged AD. Which is why I guess they don't create more Ranged AD.[/quote]

[quote=Rizzak]The real problem is not a shortage of a particular type of champion but, looking long term, having too many champions in the game. Riot currently releases a new hero every three weeks and there are 83 existing at the moment. The enjoyment of the 'LoL' experience will diminish as the count rises, for new and veteran players alike. Riot is a company geared towards turning as much profit as possible and a very decent amount of their income comes from new champions purchases. Why would they bother buffing an UP or never played champ that no longer gains revenue for them? I really feel that the quality of game could fall as the champ count rises. The beginning can already be seen with some heroes being completely rejected even at the lowest ELO's.[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=JunSupport] @ZioSerpe: Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you were a 2100+ ELO player. Oh wait - You're not. Did you know that 1520 ELO is the top 25% (if memory serves...)? That's high-ELO. Going by 2100+ tier-list standards is demonstrating your inability to utilize intuition. Remember when Teemo was considered bad? Then "The Rain Man" climbed to the top of the ELO ladder - Until he got nerfed. He did that WITHOUT listening to the metagame or tier list. [[Corki]], [[Kog'Maw]], [[Tristana]], and [[Urgot]] are all viable ranged carries who HAVE shown up in top ELO and high-stakes tournaments. Corki - Slightly nerfed, but still viable; people have just been shying away from him due to nerfs and forum-qq Kog'Maw - Played multiple times in a high-stakes tournament and shown to be an amazingly strong carry. His only problem is his low mobility which is resolved when played by a skilled user. Tristana - The only thing wrong with her is her lack of flashy animations; she's considered the strongest AD carry in all of LoL by both the internal staff of Riot AND high-elo players. Urgot - Shown to directly counter own AD carries when he CRUSHED [[Caitlyn]] in lane at the IEM tourney Your skepticism only shows your need for improvment. You should quit your lurking. You're clearly not knowledgeable enough to take this topic where it needs to go. [/quote] Tourneys > facts, you logic is flawless sir. If good players made great staff with subpar champions it doesn't mean they're not subpar, it means good players used them in a smart way. [[Teemo]] for fuck sake even I got 100% win ratio with him, it doesn't mean he's at lvl with others, he has low damage and has to wear enemy down most of the times, his skillset is perfect for spitpushing and killing tankt DPsers, but he'll never tear down a champ in a teamfight as fast as ashe-cait-vayne [[Urgot]] lategame his damage falls, he's an excelent counter and has a nice set of skills and has great early game, but lategame he's an utility champ [[kog'maw]] prolly the deadliest carry and my favourite pick, the lvl of skills required to play him isn't worth it tho; if you make 1 mistake you die, if enemy has a counter and your team makes 1 mistake in teamfights you die [[Tristana]] best lvl 18 AD ranged carry. You ain't lvl 18 whole game. And this are not, that guy did that, an objective PoV. If your ability as a player was half as big as your ego you'd be the top LoL player. You shuld stop lurking instead, as all I see you doing is bash people around; also the fact I called you out worked OH SO WELL, lulz were had. P.S. I dun look at tier list, they're meaningless to me, on the other hand it seems you do[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=ZioSerpe] Tourneys > facts, you logic is flawless sir. If good players made great staff with subpar champions it doesn't mean they're not subpar, it means good players used them in a smart way.[/quote] Dumbest post I've ever seen - Tournament players use the BEST facts to their advantage. Good players use the best champions. An underpowered champion NEVER gets used in a tournament because they're recognized as underpowered. If they get used, the team either does badly or... *drumroll* The tier-list is proven wrong! Past examples: [list] [*] Gragas - Considered overnerfed in NA until EU showed up and won Dreamhack with him - Blew everyone's mind [*] Ezreal - Thought to be Corki's inferior for the longest time UNTIL he recently showed incredible potential in the IEM tournament. [/list] You're the one with flawed logic. Tournament performances are purely based on a user-skill. It also heavily revolves around which champions are viable - Top tourney players can recognize whose viable BETTER then you can. Tournaments are how entire servers learn whose viable and who is not. Tournaments are... What got Alistar to become fotm and nerfed. What made Twisted Fate go from underpowered to broken. What made Mordekaiser require heavy lane nerfing. What showed Orianna was ridiculously broken. What showed that Vladimir is a bundle of anti-fun that could survive multiple nerfs and still be viable. High-ELO gameplay is what everyone who plays LoL, even the slightest bit more the causally, strives for. To be the best - and to be the best you have to know what picks are best - Viability. Thinking Tounaments have nothing to do with facts or viability - Stupidest thing I've heard all year. Really, I've never had to declare something was the stupidest before; everything else I could reasonably see as a misunderstanding, but this - Wow. [quote=ZioSerpe] [[Teemo]] for fuck sake even I got 100% win ratio with him, it doesn't mean he's at lvl with others, he has low damage and has to wear enemy down most of the times, his skillset is perfect for spitpushing and killing tankt DPsers, but he'll never tear down a champ in a teamfight as fast as ashe-cait-vayne[/quote] You clearly don't know who the Rainman is. He's an NA user who rose to the top, and I mean THE top, of the NA rankings - He made it into the top 5 (I dont remember if he was #1) almost purely off maining Teemo. This lead to Teemo becoming FotM and consequently receiving detrimental nerfs. Your win rate and HIS win rate are entirely different worlds. [quote][[Urgot]] lategame his damage falls, he's an excelent counter and has a nice set of skills and has great early game, but lategame he's an utility champ[/quote] He's a strategic pick. Doesn't mean he's not viable. [quote][[kog'maw]] prolly the deadliest carry and my favourite pick, the lvl of skills required to play him isn't worth it tho; if you make 1 mistake you die, if enemy has a counter and your team makes 1 mistake in teamfights you die[/quote] That does not make him non-viable. There are plenty of Kog'Maw mains in the player community. You just have to take the time to look them up. If you're too lazy, ask the forums - Quickly post: "Anyone know a good Kog'Maw main?" and I'm sure you'll get at least 2 different responses in a worst case scenario. Playing a champion perfectly is something to be strived for. And select individuals pull it off regularly enough that Riot does not need to buff those champions in question - It means they're viable, and people just need to learn how to play them [i]properly[/i]. If you don't see this, it only means one thing - You suck with them. Others can do it, you can't - Boohoo. [quote][[Tristana]] best lvl 18 AD ranged carry. You ain't lvl 18 whole game.[/quote] Again, strategic pick - Does not mean she's not viable. It's not hard to play in a way that pushes for the late game - If you can get to the late game then it's all that matters Level18 is where everything counts - It does not matter that you were not level18 the whole game, you act on those last 5 to 10 minutes where you ARE level18 The top ELO players feel she's viable. They're the ones who win games - I'm going to believe them. NOT YOU. If you think a champion has to "play" viably from level1 to 18, then that is SEVERELY restricting your LoL playing ability. Knowing how to manage poor early games, or abuse strong mid games is how people make [[urgot]], and [[tristana]] work. [quote]And this are not, that guy did that, an objective PoV.[/quote] Your "objective view" fails to appreciate the facts - This game revolves around performance, how others utilize champions everyday to be victorious count as part of objective facts because how well skilled-players do is how we, players and Riot, determine what's balanced and what's under- or over-powered Those performances prove you wrong on a DAILY basis. What I see is a random player clutching his opinion and not willing to let it go. Your statements aren't objective - They're opinions. [quote]If your ability as a player was half as big as your ego you'd be the top LoL player. You shuld stop lurking instead, as all I see you doing is bash people around; also the fact I called you out worked OH SO WELL, lulz were had. P.S. I dun look at tier list, they're meaningless to me, on the other hand it seems you do[/quote] Your the one whose showing off an ego. I don't follow the tier list blindly. I use it as a "reference" as a part of the big picture. You're the one who ACTS like he follows a tier-list blindly; constantly revealing incredible blindspots in your intuition. I draw from low-elo, mid-elo, high-elo, riot internal discussion, forum discussions, and tournament play. [color=#ffff00]While you, as an over-eager-nobody, is trying to act smart by ignoring the top of the LoL community and going purely on your own opinion. Nothing, but your own unsupported opinion that is rejected ENTIRELY by high-elo gameplay.[/color] My ego may be big, but at least I can back it up.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][u]This is the TL;DR for the above post - Because I post for the community, not one person. ^.^[/u] Tournaments are how EVERYONE learns what's viable and what's not. High-ELO gameplay encompasses a huge portion of how the game is balanced -Players can't be high-elo by playing who they want and just being good at it -They have to pick the best champions to apply their "good" skills to -If a high-elo player uses a champion well in a tournament, it's not just because they're amazingly good; it means the champion IS VIABLE. High-ELO gameplay completely contradict with ZioSerpe is saying. Riot's past statements and principles disagrees, people who DO better then him contradict his statements everyday with games. ZioSerpe here doesn't recognize some champions as viable simply because they're not strong in all phases of the game (early, mid, and late) - To him, you need to be strong in ALL 3 phases in order to be viable OR require skill to play well - such as Kog'Maw who can die easily if you misstep. This - I laugh at whole-heartedly knowing full well that playing a champion perfectly, enduring weak early games, or abusing strong early games are what people strive for in what is a strategy game. [color=#ffff00]It is clear that he has no real basis for his own statements and has based all his statements mainly on his own opinion. It's obvious that ZioSerpe is unable to grasp how to play some balanced champions and assumes they're underpowered.[/color] Twitch, maybe ; Sivir? definitely; even Miss Fortune's getting a buff next patch. But Tristana? Urgot? Kog'Maw? Corki? All totally still viable, and proven so EVERYDAY by normal summoners like scrubs like me, 1700+ folk, and even 2000+ ELO players. P.S. I know I'm a horribly mean S.O.B. But I also know I'm not wrong - Why? - Because I'm using the reality of the entire status-quo of the game as my evidence! This little verbal skirmish is about the status-quo of the game - Which AD carries are viable - That is based on how players perform with their champions in actual in-game situations. Not face-value, which is what ZioSerpe's basing his judgments on.[/quote]

[quote=NinjaGinge]I enjoy this thread on so many levels. lollol. Well done OP because I agree with you in that I would like more strong ranged characters and kudos Jun for raining cold hard facts. Informative as always. <3[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=JunSupport] [u]This is the TL;DR for the above post - Because I post for the community, not one person. ^.^[/u] Tournaments are how EVERYONE learns what's viable and what's not. High-ELO gameplay encompasses a huge portion of how the game is balanced -Players can't be high-elo by playing who they want and just being good at it -They have to pick the best champions to apply their "good" skills to -If a high-elo player uses a champion well in a tournament, it's not just because they're amazingly good; it means the champion IS VIABLE. High-ELO gameplay completely contradict with ZioSerpe is saying. Riot's past statements and principles disagrees, people who DO better then him contradict his statements everyday with games. ZioSerpe here doesn't recognize some champions as viable simply because they're not strong in all phases of the game (early, mid, and late) - To him, you need to be strong in ALL 3 phases in order to be viable OR require skill to play well - such as Kog'Maw who can die easily if you misstep. This - I laugh at whole-heartedly knowing full well that playing a champion perfectly, enduring weak early games, or abusing strong early games are what people strive for in what is a strategy game. [color=#ffff00]It is clear that he has no real basis for his own statements and has based all his statements mainly on his own opinion. It's obvious that ZioSerpe is unable to grasp how to play some balanced champions and assumes they're underpowered.[/color] Twitch, maybe ; Sivir? definitely; even Miss Fortune's getting a buff next patch. But Tristana? Urgot? Kog'Maw? Corki? All totally still viable, and proven so EVERYDAY by normal summoners like scrubs like me, 1700+ folk, and even 2000+ ELO players. P.S. I know I'm a horribly mean S.O.B. But I also know I'm not wrong - Why? - Because I'm using the reality of the entire status-quo of the game as my evidence! This little verbal skirmish is about the status-quo of the game - Which AD carries are viable - That is based on how players perform with their champions in actual in-game situations. Not face-value, which is what ZioSerpe's basing his judgments on. [/quote] You're an horribly self centred idiot, you turned this therad into "omg these champs are viable" from "I think a new AD ranged carry would be nice" you also talk shit without showing nothing but hey this guy did this, know what, Gragas was considered UP in NA till dreamhack? I used to play gragas already. to put a better example Poppy is one of the least used champs outside EU meta while she's actually one of the, if not the, strongest tanky DPS carry in the game atm, and one of the best premade picks. You have no knoweledge of the game for yourself and just follow what you see from people that play like you never will since you can't ind yourself a fitting place. Wanna speak about tourney great performances? what about [[twisted Fate]] from Reyk at WGC? Twisted fate sucked balls as damage champ but a smart guy turned him into a winning card. Did anyone do that before? nope because people spend their time following trends, like omg panth is OP! panth was a fucking great carry even during his biggest nerfs but people kept building him in retarded ways (IE pantheon champion spotlight by phreak) or now, OMG MORGANA AND SINGED ARE SO STRONG. big news they've always been, they didn't get any huge buffs in ages, people were just too fucking blind. People used to ban Morde asap as he was #1, now he got the littlest nerf ever and people don't ban nor pick him, as if making him get less shield from minions made him a shitty farmer/tanky caster. Step up your game, and learn not to go offtopic on threads. I understand your e-penis is all you have dude, but it's not gonna get it done with me. Oh and f you could stop trying to assume things I didn't say that would be nice.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@ZioSerpe: [color=#ff0000]You went and blatantly stated that X number of AD carries were viable.[/color] [color=#00ff00]I disagreed and [u]expanded[/u] the topic[/color] because I felt a different archetype deserved more attention because I have the right to do so out of freedom of speech. It's not by problem that you chose to call my well-thought out and JUSTIFIED statements as "assumptions" and try to ride your own opinions into making this into an easy self-boosting victory. You are the one who lacks knowledge about the game. [color=#ffff00]All your thoughts, I have read thus far, are first-impressions type statements that scream "I have no experience with this champion."[/color] Have you actually played the champions? Can you see others may do better that you fail at? I can. I've played every single champion in the game. (Except for Riven til her free week shows up...) I thoughtfully try and explore each champion and that's how I grasp their strengths and weaknesses. My thoughts are constantly being re-affirmed by Riot posts AND high-ELO players who have the skill to do what I cannot. [color=#ffff00]You, on the other hand, overemphasize weaknesses[/color]. Those are balance measures that exist in all champions to keep them from being overpowered. Some more obvious then others because some have more depth, or game-wide influence while others are more obvious and true to face-value. But the way you put it, it's as if those weaknesses make them automatically underpowered. You don't need to be good at the game to know what's good and what's not. You just have to be willing to acknowledge all the players better then you. [color=#ffff00]I am still on topic on this forum.[/color] The topic flows based on discussion. The Original-Post does not dictate what people must comment on. Even so, I responded to something YOU said on the OP. Then, you chose to make it part of the topic. Deal with it. edit: Also, I am adoring how your formatting is deteriorating with every post.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Jun I agree with a lot of the things you wrote. --------------------------------------- "Tournaments are how entire servers learn whose viable and who is not. Tournaments are... What got Alistar to become fotm and nerfed. What made Twisted Fate go from underpowered to broken. What made Mordekaiser require heavy lane nerfing. What showed Orianna was ridiculously broken. What showed that Vladimir is a bundle of anti-fun that could survive multiple nerfs and still be viable." ------------------------------------------ However, many of those champions uoi mentioned in your posts were always strong, and the high Elo players were blind to it. While I see the point you're trying to make, I think the reality is that even if a high Elo player doesn't use a champion it can still be strong or broken. The champions that are used and proven in high Elo are one subject. The champions that have not yet been used or proven are another.[/quote]