I will take Lugignaf side on this, mostly because I can read what he types.
Also, you seem to focus on the wrong things when you address your tier list.
The reason why you have Malph low is because you need a good "Team composition"
I'm sorry. I thought this was a jungle tier list, you know, a list of who is the best junglers overall.
See, if this was a "solo queue tier list" then I can see your reasoning.
A "Normal" jungle list is used to be based on 3 things: Speed, sustain, recovery and ganking
After the new jungle, its just: Speed, recovery and ganking. (no need for any sustain in easy mode jungle)
Also, you seem to focus on the wrong things when you address your tier list.
The reason why you have Malph low is because you need a good "Team composition"
I'm sorry. I thought this was a jungle tier list, you know, a list of who is the best junglers overall.
See, if this was a "solo queue tier list" then I can see your reasoning.
A "Normal" jungle list is used to be based on 3 things: Speed, sustain, recovery and ganking
After the new jungle, its just: Speed, recovery and ganking. (no need for any sustain in easy mode jungle)
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ZioSerpe
<Member>
<Member>
omagma wrote:
I will take Lugignaf side on this, mostly because I can read what he types.
Also, you seem to focus on the wrong things when you address your tier list.
The reason why you have Malph low is because you need a good "Team composition"
I'm sorry. I thought this was a jungle tier list, you know, a list of who is the best junglers overall.
See, if this was a "solo queue tier list" then I can see your reasoning.
A "Normal" jungle list is used to be based on 3 things: Speed, sustain, recovery and ganking
After the new jungle, its just: Speed, recovery and ganking. (no need for any sustain in easy mode jungle)
I'm not sure about what you mean by recovery, seriusly, no clue.
Anyway Malph is low (actually not that much, he's T2 for the love of god) because his kit is designed to counter certain kid of champs, against a team that doesn't give him the chance to fully use his kit there is not real reason not to pick any other very tanky jungler that clears faster and ganks better than him, if you need a pure tank that is, if you don't even need a pure tank everyone who's above him is a faster jungler or has better ganks or both.
Maybe I'm missing something here idk you really didn't give me a clue on who is worst than malph that I put higher nor why, let me know.
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ExamplePrime
<Member>
<Member>
Yeah I don't see why Moakai is so high
There are much better junglers than him, he just happened to carry a tournament.
And the list should be all about how quickly it can be cleared, how sustainable the champion is at all parts of the jungle, counter-jungling and how to recover from Being counter-jungled
So yeah quite bluntly Moakai really shouldn't be that high, and you also make a commment about Cho being low because he is a better solo top, have you seen Maokai top?
Cho'Gath clears fast, has strong sustain and can recover easily. The only problem is his ganks are a bit off but if you land the rupture then you're sorted.
There are much better junglers than him, he just happened to carry a tournament.
And the list should be all about how quickly it can be cleared, how sustainable the champion is at all parts of the jungle, counter-jungling and how to recover from Being counter-jungled
So yeah quite bluntly Moakai really shouldn't be that high, and you also make a commment about Cho being low because he is a better solo top, have you seen Maokai top?
Cho'Gath clears fast, has strong sustain and can recover easily. The only problem is his ganks are a bit off but if you land the rupture then you're sorted.
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@Zio
No...
I did read what you typed. I realize apparently you said this is not JUST about tier list, ok, well you don't really have anything else up there atm, so it kinda is for people who already know how to jungle well and don't need your help.
Shaco is definitely not better then Nocturne, lol...he has fast clear times and good ganks, that's it. He is extremely susceptible to counter jungling. Nocturne has fast clear times, just as good ganks pre-6 and much better ganks post 6, oh and he doesn't become a total ****** lategame either.
Also I want to clarify something for you.
This is a JUNGLE tier list.
Every jungle tier list in the world goes solely on JUNGLING. You have Malphite that low because he is a situational pick? Well bro, Shaco is shut down by hard CC just as much as Yi is. Also, Watch the Empire vs SK game and tell me Malphite is sooooo situational.
Oh and Trundle...lol. He doesn't have insanely fast clear times anymore.
It's not that his ganks + lategame scaling is bad, but Udyr, Nocturne, Cho, etc have faster clear times, good ganks and just as good if not better lategame scaling.
Cho isn't 'much better' solo top, he has some problems, although he is very good. He is just as good in the jungle though if not better based on teamcomp and playstyle.
I agree with Shyvana, but she can go in and kill the enemy jungler easily, which is why I like her being higher.
No...
I did read what you typed. I realize apparently you said this is not JUST about tier list, ok, well you don't really have anything else up there atm, so it kinda is for people who already know how to jungle well and don't need your help.
Shaco is definitely not better then Nocturne, lol...he has fast clear times and good ganks, that's it. He is extremely susceptible to counter jungling. Nocturne has fast clear times, just as good ganks pre-6 and much better ganks post 6, oh and he doesn't become a total ****** lategame either.
Also I want to clarify something for you.
This is a JUNGLE tier list.
Every jungle tier list in the world goes solely on JUNGLING. You have Malphite that low because he is a situational pick? Well bro, Shaco is shut down by hard CC just as much as Yi is. Also, Watch the Empire vs SK game and tell me Malphite is sooooo situational.
Oh and Trundle...lol. He doesn't have insanely fast clear times anymore.
It's not that his ganks + lategame scaling is bad, but Udyr, Nocturne, Cho, etc have faster clear times, good ganks and just as good if not better lategame scaling.
Cho isn't 'much better' solo top, he has some problems, although he is very good. He is just as good in the jungle though if not better based on teamcomp and playstyle.
I agree with Shyvana, but she can go in and kill the enemy jungler easily, which is why I like her being higher.
I will also like to have some proof of this "mentor" of yours, if you do not mind.
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@The "Malph is situational" argument...
Look at Malphite and tell me what you see.
I see someone with strong ganks pre and post level 6 because of the slow and initiate.
He's also a jungle tank which is always welcomed.
To top it off, he has AoE clearing. Something that all strong junglers should have.
Only reason Shaco is supposedly better than Nocturne is early ganks.
Also, recovery is this: If the enemy comes in to steal your creeps, it's how easily you shrug it off.
Amumu in the old jungle? Terrible recovery because of how blue dependent he was. Still kinda is.
Shyvana in both the old and new jungle? Great recovery because of her strong dueling power and fast camp clearing.
Also, Nasus is easily tier 4. If he's not put solo top, he can easily get enough farm in the jungle and the ganks he brings are brutal.
Fizz+Olaf tier 5... .-.
Okay... Olaf was tier like.. 2 or 3 in Stonewall's tier list. That's only because he lacked sustain. Now that sustain is really a moot point, he's easily tier 2... or 3. Depends on how well you land that axe.
Fizz, good clear times, again. The only issue I have with him is that he's stupidly macro intensive to optimize the route. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it means you see bad ones more often than not.
Look at Malphite and tell me what you see.
I see someone with strong ganks pre and post level 6 because of the slow and initiate.
He's also a jungle tank which is always welcomed.
To top it off, he has AoE clearing. Something that all strong junglers should have.
Only reason Shaco is supposedly better than Nocturne is early ganks.
Also, recovery is this: If the enemy comes in to steal your creeps, it's how easily you shrug it off.
Amumu in the old jungle? Terrible recovery because of how blue dependent he was. Still kinda is.
Shyvana in both the old and new jungle? Great recovery because of her strong dueling power and fast camp clearing.
Also, Nasus is easily tier 4. If he's not put solo top, he can easily get enough farm in the jungle and the ganks he brings are brutal.
Fizz+Olaf tier 5... .-.
Okay... Olaf was tier like.. 2 or 3 in Stonewall's tier list. That's only because he lacked sustain. Now that sustain is really a moot point, he's easily tier 2... or 3. Depends on how well you land that axe.
Fizz, good clear times, again. The only issue I have with him is that he's stupidly macro intensive to optimize the route. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but it means you see bad ones more often than not.
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The only person who's ever run jungle leona successfully is EPIK, and frankly that's just because Dan is great at leona and great in the jungle.
The only thing Leona excels at is ganking, and per-6 her ganking is avoidable.
Personally, I'd say she's fine in tier 3.
However, I'm surprised at maokai #1 jungle champion - Jatt himself said that Maokai falls off late game, and the only way he can redeem himself is by having a great early game.
The only thing Leona excels at is ganking, and per-6 her ganking is avoidable.
Personally, I'd say she's fine in tier 3.
However, I'm surprised at maokai #1 jungle champion - Jatt himself said that Maokai falls off late game, and the only way he can redeem himself is by having a great early game.
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Its non existent territory brosideon