Ok I have another problem and this time it is with your skill sequence... sorry I honestly don't comprehend how caustic spittle at level 16 is better than ult level 3 at level 16, please enlighten me... After all the extra range is great for increased fear factor results! Anyways please don't take offense to this... I'm just curious... personally I agree that void ooze is better than caustic spittle for it's only a smidge of armor and mr reduced... void ooze is an aoe that hits hard... What opponent? Takes the choice away and forces you to be good at skillshotting (timing and predicting). Kog'Maw is the ultimate skillshotting champion.

Shouldn't u take the 3 points on Mental Force and put it on one of the other mastery that give more AP? You will get more in the end...

True. Like I said. My bad.

Anyone with that intention doesn't use paragraphs and certainly won't write 10 of them with criticism. Almost without exception.

Seemed like he rolled into town to say "**** you", so my bad if that wasn't the actual intent.

Brings me back to an old quote I heard. "10% of person to person conflict is due to difference of opinion, the other 90% is due to tone of voice"

Work on your approach, man :\

Don't be too hard on him, dbug. Khazem's just trying to help. As an avid reviewer, I know how much time and effort it takes to write 10 paragraphs like that. You may not agree with him, you may not like being downvoted, but at least show him a bit of respect for the time he put into reviewing your guide. It's a heck of a lot better than an anonymous downvote or "I LIEK AD BUILDZ BETTAR."

I agree with a lot of the points Khazem brought up, but not all. If you want to publish a build for AS kog'maw, even in mid lane, that's totally your prerogative. If every guide was the same, this site would be a very boring place. I have built Kog'Maw somewhat similar to your build quite successfully. I believe an on-hit build is very situational, but still viable if you know when to do it. I don't know if laning mid is a bad idea or not, but it's not unheard of.

Your guide does look pretty fantastic, but you're going to want critics like Khazem if you want your guide to improve and grow. My guides looked radically different when I first wrote them and it took a lot of theorycrafting, gameplay and some arguments before I ended up with builds that actually work. It sucks to get downvoted and criticism can be irritating, but you still need to make the most of it when it comes around. If you snap back at your critics, you're going to get more anonymous downvotes than useful advice.

Even this post is probably going to irritate you since I'm criticizing your response to Khazem's post (even if his post was a little heavy-handed). I urge you to keep in mind that the only reason we take the time to write long posts like this is because we want to help you. If I didn't care about you or your guide, I wouldn't bother writing this post right now.

Lastly, thank you for the credit. It was unexpectedly generous. :)

Also, if you'd ever like a review from me, just shoot me a PM. You don't have to of course, but I'm here if you want a second opinion. If you would like one, be ready for some criticism on your build and guide content (aesthetics look pretty fine, so I wouldn't have much to say on that). I also won't downvote, because that's not really something I do often.

Good luck with your guide, bro.

-Psi

EDIT: Now that Khazem replied, I feel kind of redundant. Oh well. :/

First off, my apologies if my original comment sounded rude or offensive, I was trying to give you constructive critisism.



You can defend and explain your choices as much as you want, in the end most of them are extremely inefficient and subpar. You can write a 3 page essay on why you think infinite edge is a good item on Soraka, but that doesn't make it a good item on her.



I'm all for trying out new things, but I also have enough experience with the game to know what isn't going to work no matter how you slice it.



No. Kog'maw, as a champion, needs it. Anyone with enough experience will tell you that.

I know you're trying something new and unique, but there's a reason 'typical' builds are 'typical'. I think you got me wrong though, I didn't mean to say you should always go straight AD, I think an on-hit attack speed build on Kog'maw is just fine and in some cases probably even better, I just don't think this is the right way to do it. (Bloodrazor/Wit's end are both definitely great items on him, I merely suggested you adding some actual damage in the mix rather than all out attack speed)

Once again, apologies if I sounded offensive in my original comment. I'm trying to give you constructive critisism, not bash your guide. (even though I did think your response was extremely offensive for no real reason, I can ignore it cause you might have misinterpreted my OP)

For future commenters, feel free to come by, feel free to critique, feel free to contribute. DO NOT, however, come in write me 10 paragraphs on how all that's here is "bad information". There's no such thing in this game. All information is good information if it works for YOU and you explain how to make it work for someone ELSE.

If I wanted to say "here's how to be a good Kog'Maw- Go look at the top AD build on mobafire and copy it", I wouldn't have taken the hours it took to write this, I would have posted a link on reddit or in the mobaforum.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and I encourage you to try something new today. And tomorrow. And every day after that.

Its a shame you spent so much time writing that and downvoting my build just to keep the same closed mind as everyone else that plays as a straight AD Kog'Maw build and tried to get me to convert my non-straight AD Kog'Maw build INTO a straight AD Kog'Maw build when I specifically wrote this to NOT be the same as other builds.

Guys like you are the reason anyone dreads contributing to an online community. You take new ideas and **** on them and try and convert them to what is safe and typical. That's exactly what I'm trying to go AGAINST. I have no desire to play a game exactly how everyone else plays it.

I explained my need for attack speed pretty efficiently, I haven't gotten far enough yet to explain my summoner skills, hence the missing section for them, and summoner skills are completely subjective to the player, which I planned on explaining once I got that section built. YOU have a hard time escaping with Kog, I can gather that from your comment. I have no issue escaping with Kog, so I choose not to get mobility assisting skills. I do, however, use my ultimate, not for damage, but to psych my middle opponent out, and it works, but it costs a lot of mana, even end game, where you've listed clarity as being ineffective.

Just because YOU need extra escape abilities doesn't mean everyone does.
Runes, masteries, and summoner skills- they're all totally subjective.

For you to slam into me the MOST for those items very purely shows me that anything that's out of the ordinary remotely... isn't going to sit well with you. It's an elitist attitude and it will be your downfall in a game where adaptation is key. Your attachment to the status quo will ultimately make me a better player than you.

Do you think that these "typical" guides that you want to cling to were available when the game dropped? They came pre-packaged with the installer? No. Innovative players discovered things that they found that worked, and implemented them and passed them down.

Why is there a website, several, actually, dedicated entirely to the discussion and development of builds? **** it, actually, why are you even allowed to buy equipment at all if, by your ideals, every character is meant to be built only one way, and there's only one way that could possibly work?

Its a game of creativity and employment of that creativity into adaptive strategies.

Your logic is 100% void and unproductive.

But thanks for your time.

I guess I'll start sending all the AP mids who "outclass me", 10, 15, 20 victories in a row... over here to say hi when I destroy them from now on. You know... the ones who say "That's the longest I've ever had to fight for mid"? or "How the hell did Kog'Maw win the mid"? or "Pro Kog'Maw"? Complete strangers that have never met me?

It's a terrible guide, obviously. I mean... that's why I put it here, for sure.
-Dbug

It's a shame, you've obviously spent a lot of time making this guide and making it look good and easy to read, but most of the information in it is just pretty bad, really.

Neither of your summoner spell choices make any sense on Kog'maw. Kog'maw's a very squishy and slow champion that has a very unreliable slow as an escape. There's no way you're going to get away with not having Flash. Sure his range is huge when Bio-Arcane Barrage is active, but there's plenty of champions that can overcome that range without a problem.

Clarity is pretty useless after the laning phase. I don't see why you would ever need this when you're not going for an AP build so you shouldn't be spamming your ultimate untill you're out of mana and even if you were AP it's still a pretty bad summoner spell overall.
You're going mid lane so I don't see the point of having Teleport. You're close enough to both lanes and all map objectives to assist your team without needing Teleport and Kog'maw is able to clear waves fast so he wouldn't need it to get back in lane faster either.

You have WAY too much attack speed. Not only is it very inefficient, those runes will also set you up for an awful laning phase, especially when going mid where Kog'maw is already outclassed by every AP mid laner. Consider getting some magic resistance and/or health or even some flat AD or armor penetration for better last hitting/poking.
Your rune choices for 'tankmaw' are also very weird and inefficient.

You're misinforming people when you say the standard AD build is easy to shut down. Especially on a champion like Kog'maw the opposite is true. The build you're using relies heavily on Bio-Arcane Barrage and you won't be doing much damage outside of it. Once again way too much attack speed and just not a lot of damage.

Your ability sequence is also a bit confusing. Not only does Void Ooze cost the most mana of all Kog'maw's abilities (besides his ultimate after a couple of uses), it's also the most unreliable form of harass in the laning phase considering its range.
Also, you don't level your ultimate at level 16?

If you're getting Expanded Mind , you might as well get the mana regen as well as it's pretty useful for Kog's early game. Without it, the 3 points in utility feel like a waste and are probably better spent in defense. I know you mention the masteries are more personal opinion, but I can't help but feel you're wasting a couple of points.

You're laning mid, against AP carries, yet you start with a Cloth Armor (which by itsself is a pretty weird choice for going mid) and you don't get any health potions for sustain? Sure, the wards are useful, but absolutely not needed for the first few levels. You're much better off starting Boots + 3 Health Potion for some mobility to avoid skillshots/aid you in ganks and some much needed sustainability.

Lastly, no matter how you slice it, Kog'maw is just not a good laner mid. He's 'okay' if and only if you go AP and get fed blue buffs all day, but generally he's a much better choice for bottom lane and I would never recommend him going mid lane.

Downvoted cause I think this guide is rated too high currently. I might change my mind as the guide as I do believe it has potential, but for now I'm sticking to a downvote, sorry!

By the way, PsiGuard, you've been credited in my build.

You too, AncientNecro.

I haven't played yet today, so I guess I didn't get the memo :)