Rushing Last Whisper

[quote=Pranzatelli]I included the interaction with Infinity Edge's crit chance and crit damage. ((.75*1)+(.25*2.5)-1=.375) The .25 is the 25% crit chance and the 2.5 is the 250% crit chance. As I said, "This value increases dramatically with crit, which is an argument both for a later buy of Infinity Edge as well as the value of an early Infinity Edge with crit runes/masteries." With a Phantom Dancer, this would be ((.45*1)+(.55*2.5)-(.7*1)-(.3*2)=.525) if I did the math correctly, which is a 52.5% increase in damage. Which is ridiculously good. However, I was comparing Infinity Edge and Last Whisper as starting items, which is like comparing a Rabadon's Deathcap and a Void Staff as the first item; you're gonna take both of them, and probably the Rabadon's first, but not before a Rod of Ages (because then the value of Rabadon's is boosted). Maybe, in some situations, you'll want a Staff, but 90% of the time you'll stick to a Rod->Rab's->VS. The carry variant would be PD->IE->LW.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=Luther3000] [quote=Temzilla] If the enemy has enough armor to justify LW before I.E. you shouldn't be attacking them at all. [/quote] Not correct. The best and most important thing you can do as an AD carry in a fight is [i]stay alive[/i]. Your opponent's tanky champions are the ones who will rush at you, and their squishy carries will stay at the back. If you try to focus your opponent's squishies as an AD carry at any decent skill level you will get completely fucked by their entire team. Sometimes you can't avoid focusing a tank if they're heading right for you trying to kill you while their carries have good positioning. Lategame AD carries can destroy tanks very quickly anyway, so why not? [/quote] 202 armor is the equal point in terms of Gold efficiency for DPS increases. If you have 202 armor, and all your AD carry has is an I.E., then you are just stacking chain vests, and you shouldn't do any damage whatsoever.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=Pranzatelli] I included the interaction with Infinity Edge's crit chance and crit damage. ((.75*1)+(.25*2.5)-1=.375) The .25 is the 25% crit chance and the 2.5 is the 250% crit chance. As I said, "This value increases dramatically with crit, which is an argument both for a later buy of Infinity Edge as well as the value of an early Infinity Edge with crit runes/masteries." With a Phantom Dancer, this would be ((.45*1)+(.55*2.5)-(.7*1)-(.3*2)=.525) if I did the math correctly, which is a 52.5% increase in damage. Which is ridiculously good. However, I was comparing Infinity Edge and Last Whisper as starting items, which is like comparing a Rabadon's Deathcap and a Void Staff as the first item; you're gonna take both of them, and probably the Rabadon's first, but not before a Rod of Ages (because then the value of Rabadon's is boosted). Maybe, in some situations, you'll want a Staff, but 90% of the time you'll stick to a Rod->Rab's->VS. The carry variant would be PD->IE->LW. [/quote] I've never picked up RoA before Deathcap. Deathcap is infinitely more damage. Deathcap > Lichbane if applicable > Void Staff > AP items.[/quote]

[quote=Pranzatelli]I feel ignored. I think caps will fix this problem. AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, TEMZILLA, YOUR MATH IS FLAWED! IT IS AN ARMOR-BLIND DPS SIMULATION! ALMOST ALL OF LAST WHISPER'S VALUE COMES FROM ARMOR PENETRATION! IF YOU THINK THAT LAST WHISPER IS ONLY VALUABLE AT 202 ARMOR, PLEASE POST YOUR MATHEMATICAL EVIDENCE FOR THAT STATEMENT! Also, that's interesting. With little to no AP, Rabadon's is terrible for the cost. Though I'd rather focus on Last Whisper.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I mean it really doesn't even matter how much math you do. Math isn't the most reliable avenue for functional application of returns for investments. Even if you theoretical mathcraft says one thing, it's not absolute. Besides, when I buy Infinity Edge, I also buy a green pot and keep it in case of fights. The efficiency of I.E. + Green pot is unrivaled for an AD carry. Not to mention, LW has little spike. I.E. has dramatic spike damage, and spike damage is what swings games the hardest. 150. That's the realistic threshold, and you'll never find that outside of the top lane, which is why I mentioned that scenario. [quote=Pranzatelli] Also, that's interesting. With little to no AP, Rabadon's is terrible for the cost. [/quote] This is also not correct. You feel ignored because you're wrong. Your statements are based solely in math and have no functional merit.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]@Tem, I wasn't agreeing with LW first, just pointing out that your logic of 'hitting tanks = bad' is wrong. LW is great as a third item, but I wouldn't get it any sooner than that. IE + PD is just too strong.[/quote]

[quote=Pranzatelli]^I agree wholeheartedly with this. PD+IE is ridiculously valuable. @Duff: wut. If you don't think math is a "reliable avenue for functional application for returns for investments", what are you doing in the Theorycrafting forum? Math is the way of understanding games that are all numbers, like LoL. LoL doesn't even have RNG outside of crit and the late dodge. Math is everything. And "spike"? Maybe if the game rolls you a bunch of crits it'll swing the game.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]What are we all doing here? We're discussing what is or is not the best build. I'm just as entitled to my own opinion as you are. Spike does swing games. If you don't understand that then I don't know how to help you.[/quote]

[quote=Pranzatelli]What are we all doing here? We're arguing about when it is most valuable to get a Last Whisper. LoL is a game of numbers; personal opinions have nothing to do with it. Increasing damage by bursting through crit is often the best way to increase your damage (because of the value of crit for the cost in items), but I'm saying that relying on RNG for a 25% occurrence for value can also be undesirable. To keep personal preference out of this, we value crit as if it is a constant increase and not an RNG-based one. You can argue that "spike" wins games, but you can also argue that "spike" is not reliable. If you think opinions should be dragged into theory arguments for a numbers-based game, then I can't see your interest in this forum.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]If it's your opinion that reliable damage is better than massive crushing spike damage, your opinion is unfortunately wrong.[/quote]