Best AP Mid

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=castermaster]All that makes him strong is his ability to burst and gank all lanes at once. Sight Wards are enough to stop that.[/quote] Partially true; Kassa's strength comes from the fact that he has a high damage, low cool down burst which is almost uncounterable for any mage since the silence shuts them down. Another very strong thing about kassadin is that he has extremely high base damage; which allows him to do extreme damage without any ap. He shuts down mages and is a brilliant assassin.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]Swain gets pooped on by anyone with Ignite and either A. Enough burst to put him down. B. More sustained damage That list of AP champs is quite long. So IDK what Sept is going on about. Viktor....IMO haven't seen any "amazing" games of Viktor. A master of any champ will make me shit bricks, so grats on the generic statement of a lifetime. The BEST AP mids are the one's with the least counters. Simple as that.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] Swain gets pooped on by anyone with Ignite and either A. Enough burst to put him down. B. More sustained damage That list of AP champs is quite long. So IDK what Sept is going on about. Viktor....IMO haven't seen any "amazing" games of Viktor. A master of any champ will make me shit bricks, so grats on the generic statement of a lifetime. The BEST AP mids are the one's with the least counters. Simple as that. [/quote] Very true Jeffy; [[Viktor]] hardcounters swain due to his [[Power Transfer]] which will just absorb most of [[Swain]]'s DoT's. [[Morgana]] and [[Cassiopeia]] are probably the best ap mid's then; since they have no real hardcounters and then you can just ban those who are somewhat harder to lane against.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]Morg is over rated. Her early game consists of farming. And her black shield is easily broken. Imo i consider katarina to be a hard counter to morg. High mobility decent poke. Super bursty. Id consider cass vlad and ahri to be the strongest ap mids. Cass because her early game dps is solid. Ahri for her mobility and poke. Vlad for his sustain and near ungankablity. Kennen is a close 4th but he's too easily shut down by creep blocking.[/quote]

[quote=RCIX][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] Viktor....IMO haven't seen any "amazing" games of Viktor. A master of any champ will make me shit bricks, so grats on the generic statement of a lifetime. [/quote] Has poke in top 5 for range with strong damage (and good viktors WILL land it, same as any other skillshot). Power Transfer also has good damage + cooldown stats and gives him a shield to boot. W can make teamfights on it's own. Sustained damage through R is scary and often underestimated. Trades well in lane due to strong burst and aforementioned shield. Supports ganks fairly well with W. He's basically almost everything someone could ask for in an AP mid. Quite simply, the viktors you have been seeing suck if you're not impressed. I wouldn't call him the [b]best[/b] AP mid (he does have counters) but he is a very solid choice in many circumstances.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] Morg is over rated. Her early game consists of farming. And her black shield is easily broken. Imo i consider katarina to be a hard counter to morg. High mobility decent poke. Super bursty. Id consider cass vlad and ahri to be the strongest ap mids. Cass because her early game dps is solid. Ahri for her mobility and poke. Vlad for his sustain and near ungankablity. Kennen is a close 4th but he's too easily shut down by creep blocking. [/quote] [[Morgana]] has no hardcounters if she plays it right; sadly she doesn't hardcounter anyone as well. [[Vladimir]] is hardcountered by [[Ryze]], [[Fizz]] and [[Viktor]]. Also, [[Swain]] does really good against [[Vladimir]]. [[Ahri]] doesn't easily win her lane; nor does she scale hard to late-game; imo she is a weaker version of [[Kassadin]] with a better early-game. [[Kennen]] is not strong enough for mid lane tbh, anyone with ranged hard cc can just shut him down easily as he needs to get close to be effective. Champions like [[Xerath]], [[Viktor]] and [[Cassiopeia]] shit on him. I don't believe there is a best ap mid but if I had to name one it would be [[Cassiopeia]] due to her solid, early-, mid- and late-game. The fact she has both burst and dps; and that she has no hardcounters. Additionally, she brings great teamfighting potential due to her high AoE damage and AoE hard CC.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=RCIX] Quite simply, the viktors you have been seeing suck if you're not impressed. I wouldn't call him the [b]best[/b] AP mid (he does have counters) but he is a very solid choice in many circumstances. [/quote] Very true; I can safely call [[Viktor]] my #02 mage and I find him one of the strongest ap mids available. He can win many matchups and his laning phase is extraordinary strong. He only loses to [[Kassadin]] and [[LeBlanc]] but that will be it. [[viktor]] has amazing dps, burst and poke. Also, he can reach the highest amount of ap possible (we aren't counting full-[[Archangel Staff]] builds here) next to [[Veigar]]. Additionally, the damage of [[Chaos Storm]] is so disgusting that you feel like taking a shower after every time you've used it.[/quote]

[quote=RCIX][quote=albableat] Should I mention that I never max [[rake]] first on [[talon]]? You know why? [[rake]] is exactly why all the [[talon]]s are having problems. While trying to push out the lane, deny the cs to opponents and keep harassing, they forget that it has a high mana cost (hence the mana problems you are talking about) and the overpushed lane (hence getting ganked). Maxing [[rake]] on [[talon]] is equivalent to maxing [[distortion]] on [[leblanc]]. Would you ever do it? Hell no. If you level out Q, followed by either W/E (doesn't matter later), you are keeping the minion wave around your side, keep your mana high (combined mana cost for [[noxian diplomacy]]+[[cutthroat]] approximately equals that of [[rake]]) since [[cutthroat]] has quite a lengthy cooldown, you regenerate your mana and just keep E-Q E-Q E-Q at your side your side of the lane. And you know what... Kass can't do shit about that kind of harassment. It deals more damage then Rake would deal, it is guaranteed whereas [[rake]] is a skillshot and can be missed, it doesn't automatically push the lane, keeping you safe of ganks. Imo, you misunderstand [[talon]]. He should be played exactly like [[kassadin]]/[[leblanc]] are played. Single target burst damage poke while the target is unable to retaliate. When you can go for a kill, you do it, adding in your ult/ignite. Playing [[talon]] as a pushing type middle lane leaves him open for easy ganks and since all of his escapes are his offence as well, he may get caught very easily. Any thoughts about this approach? [/quote] It's... Maxing Q is cute but means literally all you can do is poke the enemy. Rake has better scaling with levels (+60/level vs +30/level and +18/level on bleed), has a scaling CC (the slow), and Q scales better with AD than levels. And talon is really farm dependent (4.5 AD ratios on skills, 6.5 once you consider autos in an ideal combo) so it's important you max your farm skill first.[/quote]

[quote=RCIX][quote=GrandmasterD][[Vladimir]] is hardcountered by [[Ryze]], [[Fizz]] and [[Viktor]]. [/quote] Just a note on the Viktor matchup: it's true, but you [b]must[/b] keep up the pressure on vlad for this to be the case. It might seem obvious, but don't ever let him use his sustain to recover the damage you deal. You win partially thanks to A: outdamaging him with Q+E (btw max Q here, you're gonna be in his face anyway, might as well max the skill that scales more effectively for trades) and B: getting a shield that usually absorbs at least the damage from [[tides of blood]].[/quote]

[quote=albableat][quote=RCIX]It's... Maxing Q is cute but means literally all you can do is poke the enemy. Rake has better scaling with levels (+60/level vs +30/level and +18/level on bleed), has a scaling CC (the slow), and Q scales better with AD than levels. And talon is really farm dependent (4.5 AD ratios on skills, 6.5 once you consider autos in an ideal combo) so it's important you max your farm skill first. [/quote] Eh, we already figured out that it's my own preference. I do not find it a big deal to farm with auto attacks under turret and can do it quite well, mainly because I practiced that for quite a long time while playing LeBlanc. Also, I don't think early game pushing is a smart thing to do. By midgame, Rake will be strong enough to clear waves at once, but before that I would bother dealing with my opponent more then clearing waves in one lazy button press. So, it's more about personal playstyle, apparently.[/quote]