Hecarim in low elo...

[quote=BusDriver210]Don't get trapped into thinking his passive is where he scales. Its icing on top of the CDR cake that makes him unstoppable. I personally don't play a match these days as Hecarim that isn't a surrender at 20ty for the enemy team. >;)[/quote]

[quote=Kaynore][quote=Crows foot] On heca, isn't zeal a good item to start tri force with? [/quote] Not really. If you get tier 1 boots and a zeal, you get 393 ms which translates to around 11 damage assuming you are around 7 (when 15% warpath applies). So with zeal and boots you get 20% as, 10% crit chance and 11 damage. AS and crit are not the most beneficial stats that an AD bruiser would use. It is nice but HP and AD takes priority though. If you get a sheen, each spell will give you an AD bonus for that hit and will make you hit hard. Your Q is probably the most exploitable spell to use in this situation due to its relatively low mana cost and CD. So Sheen > Zeal for hecarim. However a phage rush can be interesting if you are completely dominating the lane. HP makes you a bit more sturdier and AD is a plus. The slow however makes Phage separate from the other 2 items of the Tri Force. If you are completely zoning your enemy then it is most likely that they cannot win a trade. Is that so? Then if you force a trade and they run. Hope for a slow proc and proceed hitting them until they are dead or they have found safety. [quote=DillButt64] you want to level his E last because spamming Q and W in team fights is much more valuable than a long CD speed up and yeah yer overestimating his passive a lot by level 18 its 25% of yer movement speed added to your AD normally by level 18 youll have around 400-500 MS so thats 100-125 extra AD at level 18 when you rush zeal first youll only have 8% more MS which wont up yer passive much at all if you rush sheen youll have the bonus damage from E plus the bonus damage from sheen added into your first attack if you start with E which is a lot more than 8% MS is gonna do for you [/quote] [[Warpath]] only applies to bonus movespeed. The passive does not include your base movespeed. Therefore if you have around 420ms. That is a bonus 100ms (320 is your base). Therefore at level 18, you only get 25 extra damage. You are not getting 100 ad from your passive. @Acid Reign You can build a Maw if you don't find yourself getting slaughtered by the AP. You can build a FoN if its that the case. As long as you inflict terror onto the enemy and survive their attempts to slay you, then you are good. @Morr33d Don't forget the AS slow ;)[/quote]

[quote=Morr33d][quote=DillButt64] [quote=Morr33d] Open your minds and embrace the awesomeness of Frozen Heart. Seriously, you need CDR desperately (do the math about how cdr effectively increases your DPS because of Q *hint: a shitton*), and you get armor and mana as well. Glacial into Triforce is pretty much the cookie cutter build. [/quote] the CD on his Q is already like 2ish seconds at max rank so it doesnt really need the CDR [/quote] Why the fuck people think CDR is needed only for high cooldown spells? Its exact opposite, you need CDR for low-cd spells to boost your dps, your ulti doesn't give a fuck about CDR since you will cast it once per fight anyways...[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]ohright i forgot it was only bonus MS duh so yeah that just proves the point more that more AD is better than a little MS also CDS is % based so building 40% CDR on a 2 seconds CD move isnt going to make the CD any shorter maybe by only a second when instead you can build damage and have your Q deal more dps instead of spamming an already spammable move at lower damage[/quote]

[quote=Kaynore]For Hecarim's Q, building CDR will most of the time beat building AD. Let's say your Q is already at 2 seconds due to its secondary effect. If you have no CDR and decide to use Q 5 times then it takes 10 seconds for you to do so. If you have 20% CDR (Frozen Heart) then each Q would have a 1.6 second gap (2 x .8). Therefore it would take 8 seconds to proc 5 Q's. Same damage except you do deal that damage 2 seconds earlier if you rely on Q alone. This also means that you can proc 6 Qs in 9.6 seconds. Or in other words, 195 + .6 bonus damage extra compared to no cdr. That one extra Q is, most of the time, more valuable then having a slightly stronger Q without and cdr unless you build 65 ad, the amount of AD needed to have 5 strong Q's beating 6 normal Q's. It is much cheaper building 20% cdr than building 65 ad in most circumstances.[/quote]

[quote=Acid Reigns]Dill, don't think of it like that. Don't think you're only cutting off a second Think you're cutting of 40% It's only a second each time, but it's still 40% faster. And a 40% speed increase is a lot, whether you notice or not. It's like saying AS is useless, because it only makes your AA cd decrease by a second or so... If people here think I don't think cdr is good, you're mistaken. All I'm saying is that a frozen heart isn't NEEDED on heca, because I already get a lot of cdr through other means.[/quote]

[quote=Morr33d]Still, its bullshit (sorry) because FH is the only and true core item on Hecarim :P[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]Trinity force is the core item on hecarim cuz he can use every stat and passive to benefit him also i dont really like to build CDR on hecarim D: his Q is fast enough for me to use and spam good enough to 1v1 most champions[/quote]

[quote=BusDriver210]Rushing [[Frozen Heart]] is kinda silly. [[Glacial Shroud]] does the job and allows you to pickup multiple midgame items. CDR is important, but putting all your cash into a 20ty minute FH is silly. My build goes something like this. [[Boots of Speed]] + [[Health Potion]] [[Philosopher's Stone]] [[Glacial Shroud]] + [[Ninja Tabi]] or [[Mercury's Treads]] [[Sheen]] + [[Null-magic mantle]] [[Shurelya's Reverie]] + [[Hexdrinker]] After that you just situationally work your way into your final build. Edit: I also think about [[Giant's Belt]] and an early [[Phage]] just in case I require more health.[/quote]

[quote=Morr33d]Since when you have to rush it? It's your core item, yes, but you dont have to rush it without building any other items (I'm looking at you, Sheen). People should really consider meaning of the words.[/quote]