Countering AP Yi

[quote=MrCuddowls]CC him when hes in wuju style Thats pretty much all you need to do[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote=MrCuddowls] CC him when hes in wuju style Thats pretty much all you need to do [/quote] And again, you towerdive to stop [[meditate]]?[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Jpikachu1999] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=Thalia Kael] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=Thalia Kael] Lets say your playing ahri, you can easily charm him under his tower And once he blows his alpha strike, he cant do much more damage to you, so you can start zoning him and pushing his turret while he waits for the cooldown. And when he alpha strikes, dont run away, just follow him and attack him while he runs to his turret to meditate [/quote] You won't charm him under his tower, because you don't follow your enemy every time he goes into the fog of war, you just farm and call ss. And if you do actually decide to follow him, it would be stupid of him to [[meditate]] when he can clearly see [[Ahri]] walking up to him. He can just go PAST his tower to [[meditate]]. Don't count on stopping his lane sustain by interrupting [[meditate]] because any competent AP Yi will never be in any position that it can be interrupted, with the exception of jungler ganks forcing him to choose between healing or dying. You'll zone him while his [[alpha strike]] is on cooldown. Then it comes off of cooldown and he'll get 3 minion kills and you'll get hit by a massive nuke with 300 base damage and a 100% AP ratio. Then it will happen again, and again, then he'll kill you. I'd gladly let you out-farm me by 5 minions if it means I kill you, and get to catch up to that farm while you're dead as well as score a double kill on bot. You may think I'm making out AP Yi to be a lot better than he actually is, but I'm not. A few weeks ago I scored a 1v5 quadra / unofficial penta while my only items were [[rabadon's deathcap]] and [[lich bane]]. They weren't at full HP, but the person with the lowest HP there had 30% HP, while the rest ranged from 40% HP and above. As far as I know, there's no way to counter AP Yi either inside the laning phase or out of it. AP Yi's playstyle beats any lane opponent once he has 2 [[doran's ring]]s or a blue buff, and in teamfights he drops constant 700 damage multi-target nukes, and constant 1.1k or so single-target nukes ( because of [[lich bane]] ). Once he's got his 3 core items, [[rabadon's deathcap]], [[lich bane]] and [[deathfire grasp]], his burst kills an AD carry straight away with no chance of them surviving it, which immediately refreshes all of his spells' cooldowns, including [[alpha strike]] and [[highlander]]. During his burst [[alpha strike]] would have hit 3 other enemies, and if one of them was another squishy target, such as the AP carry or a squishy support like [[sona]], then with [[alpha strike]] and [[Lich bane]]'s proc he'll score another kill, drop another 700 damage nuke on most of their team, and have [[alpha strike]] refreshed AGAIN for another 700 damage nuke, which can potentially kill a 3rd target for yet another cooldowns refresh. So that's 2 or 3 enemies killed by AP Yi in about 3 seconds, of which in almost the entire duration he was untargettable. Only counter? Have all your squishies buy [[guardian angel]] so his cooldowns don't instantly refresh after his burst and he can be focused if your team is co-ordinated enough. Good luck making that happen in solo queue. [/quote] And if he gets hit by a malzahar combo, for example? [/quote] Never been in this scenario. A possible out-come is that [[Malzahar]] ults and it immediately cancels by [[Master Yi]] becoming untargettable, another possibility is that he never gets the chance to cast it because of Yi's untargetability. Even if [[Nether grasp]] out-ranges [[alpha strike]] though, [[Malzahar]] doesn't have time to cast all his other combo's spells before Yi [[alpha strike]]s, and as soon as Yi [[alpha strike]]s, with his 3 core items, it's an instant death for [[Malzahar]]. If you were referring to the laning phase, then [[Malzahar]] isn't yet fully capable of 100-0'ing [[Master Yi]], and therefore as soon as the ult ends Yi can walk away and trollheal. Malz could win the lane if he manages to get First Blood from a jungler gank or something though, I guess. It depends on how well Malz can 100-0 people early-game. [/quote] Level 6 Malzahar can easily 100-0 Yi. Yi can't [[alpha strike]], because Malz just [[Null Zone]] + [[Malefic visions]] + [[nether grasp]], easily killing Yi. Doesn't even have to [[malefic visions]]. You can cast [[ignite]] while channeling [[nether grasp]]. I'd like to also say that [[call of the void]] is really easy to hit on a [[meditate]]ing Yi. [/quote] [[Null zone]] + [[Malefic visions]] + [[nether grasp]]: Combo takes too long to pull off and Yi would just [[alpha strike]] out of the [[null zone]] and make [[malzahar]]'s combo remain at just [[nether grasp]] + [[Malefic visions]] + [[ignite]]. [[null zone]] + [[nether grasp]] + [[ignite]]: [[Nether grasp]] has a range of 700, [[Ignite]] has a range of 600. If you cast [[nether grasp]] while out of range of [[ignite]] and try to ignite, it will cancel your ultimate because it stops the channeling to move you closer to your enemy, I was sad to discover when I bought [[malzahar]] a few weeks ago. [[Null zone]] CAN be cast along with [[nether grasp]] before Yi gets in range for [[alpha strike]], but without [[ignite]] ( and maybe even with ) it won't kill him and he can walk away, and if you make the mistake of thinking you're in range for [[ignite]] it will cancel your ultimate, along with the majority of your damage. Also, the range for [[ignite]] is the same range as for [[alpha strike]]. That means the only way to actually get off the combo necessary to do enough damage to kill him, also unfortunately allows him to dodge part of the damage. @ Cuddles, you're getting the name of his heal wrong. [[Wuju style]] increases his AD and for the most part shouldn't be included in any calculations of his damage, although it does do quite a lot if combined with [[double strike]]. You're thinking of [[Meditate]]. And what NicknameMy has said. For the most part, don't include CC'ing him during [[meditate]] in the laning phase in any argument as to how to beat AP Yi, because if he's smart you can't CC him without going full retard by tower-diving to interrupt [b]sustain[/b].[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999][quote=NicknameMy] "I'd like to also say that [[Call of the Void]] is really easy to hit on a [[Meditate]]ing Yi." Isn't that actually the same with like, [[charm]]? Try to stop him in the FoW. Try to towerdive him just to stop [[meditate]]. [/quote] I seriously can't believe you just said that. Malzahar has so much burst that he will force Yi to [[meditate]] before he gets to tower or he'll die. Or, you just don't tower dive him. Besides, if he [[Alpha Strike]]s to you, I don't think he's getting to his tower anytime soon. [quote=Vapora Dark] [[null zone]] + [[nether grasp]] + [[ignite]]: [[Nether grasp]] has a range of 700, [[Ignite]] has a range of 600. If you cast [[nether grasp]] while out of range of [[ignite]] and try to ignite, it will cancel your ultimate because it stops the channeling to move you closer to your enemy, I was sad to discover when I bought [[malzahar]] a few weeks ago. [[Null zone]] CAN be cast along with [[nether grasp]] before Yi gets in range for [[alpha strike]], but without [[ignite]] ( and maybe even with ) it won't kill him and he can walk away, and if you make the mistake of thinking you're in range for [[ignite]] it will cancel your ultimate, along with the majority of your damage. Also, the range for [[ignite]] is the same range as for [[alpha strike]]. That means the only way to actually get off the combo necessary to do enough damage to kill him, also unfortunately allows him to dodge part of the damage. [/quote] Now please tell me how Yi can kill me in lane if he has to wait to [[Alpha strike]] me. The only way AP Yi works is by whittling down the opponent. It's really quite simple. If he [[Alpha Strike]]s to you, you wait for him to come out, lay [[null zone]] at your feet, [[Malefic Visions]] him and then [[Nether Grasp]]. Easy kill. Malzahar is known for being a ridiculous pusher. It's really easy to land at least 2 [[Malefic Visions]] onto him when he goes to CS. You force his [[Meditate]] = easy kill. Going untargetable means that he can't get new spells on him. If he has [[Malefic Visions]] and [[Ignite]] on him when he [[Alpha Strike]]s, he still takes damage. If he [[Alpha strike]]s you after you pull off a combo on him, he's on a suicide mission. His alpha strike is 300 + 100% of ability power. Your combo is 320 + 550 + 210% of ability power + 8% of max HP per second. I'll just say this one more time. Even if you are in range for [[Alpha strike]], he can't use it on you or he's dead.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark]My bad, I thought you were talking about late-game where all he has to do is [[alpha strike]] you to use [[deathfire grasp]] and [[lich bane]] proc and you're dead. Laning phase is a MUCH easier answer. There's this last-resort tactic AP Yi's use if they can't afford to get in range of their enemy because they'd die for whatever reason. They wait until one of the 3 minions they're meant to [[alpha strike]] to is nearly dead from your minions, then use [[alpha strike]] on it, the minion dies while you're flying towards it, you hit all the other targets aka you and 2 other minions, then because the minion they Q'd to originally is dead, it takes him back to where he used [[alpha strike]] in the first place, rather than where his target was. That way he stays within a safe distance of his enemy while at the same time slowly whittling them down, and eventually just turns on [[highlander]], charges at them and kills them. No one I've played against so far knew how to react against this tactic, seeing as there's just no chance of reaching me at all. Yi also holds a massive advantage over [[malzahar]] pre-lvl 6, and can usually finish him off within seconds of reaching lvl-6 if he hasn't killed him already. This way he snowballs, roams and scores constant double-kills on bot lane. GG.[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999]I guess so, I could just [[Malefic Visions]] and clear your whole wave before I get to 3 minions though.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Jpikachu1999] I guess so, I could just [[Malefic Visions]] and clear your whole wave before I get to 3 minions though. [/quote] Blowing the spell you're maxing on minions is just inviting me to [[alpha strike]] you directly. :o[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999]I guess so, I don't see you killing me with just one [[Alpha strike]], and I can still pin you in [[null zone]] and use [[ignite]] while [[Nether Grasp]]ing you. Plus, I then win the farm game, and if you run back while a minion dies I could have my [[malefic visions]] jump to you :P[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Jpikachu1999] I guess so, I don't see you killing me with just one [[Alpha strike]], and I can still pin you in [[null zone]] and use [[ignite]] while [[Nether Grasp]]ing you. Plus, I then win the farm game, and if you run back while a minion dies I could have my [[malefic visions]] jump to you :P [/quote] I seriously don't see you killing me with a lvl 1 spell, lvl 1 ult and [[ignite]]. :P [[alpha strike]] won't kill you, but it's got retardedly high base damage and a 100% AP ratio, so you'll seriously notice every single hit from it. You'd probably win the farm game, but that doesn't change the fact that I scale better into late-game and I'm going to be ahead in kills unless a [[malefic visions]] retardedly hits me while I'm walking past the minion it just killed and you can notice it and react fast enough to combo me.[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]Malzahar full combo level 6 damage : Ult : 250 +1.3 ap ratio Malefic Visions : 200 + 0.8 ap ratio Call of the void : 80 + 0.8 ap ratio Null zone : 4% of your max ap per second over 5 seconds, 20% total, +0.05 ap ratio, 206 dmg Level 6 ignite : 170 dmg Master Yi Hp with 2 Doran Rings : 1032 1032/5 = 206 Malz will prob have 100ap or more by then, so Ult: 380 Malefic visions : 280 Call of the void : 160 Null Zone : 206 Ignite : 170 Voidling will get like 4-5 attacks in, dealing around 200 dmg 380 + 280 + 160 + 206 + 170 + 200 = 1396 Thats before magic resist, but a good malz will have some mpen runes, so it wont block 300 dmg[/quote]