Seriously thinking of not helping on...

[quote=Searz][quote=Luther3000] ^ I don't downvote guides unless they're outdated/bad highly rated guides, but people are downvoting you for good reasons. -Ignite is not good on Ashe -You have your ArP and AD runes the wrong way around -Health runes and CrC runes suk -The main item build is completely wtf all over the place -You say [[heal]] and [[ghost]] are bad but that [[teleport]] can work -You incorrectly state that CrC runes synergize with Ashe's passive -You state that using Q and W while running away is a bad idea -You don't actually explain how to play an AD, like there's literally no explanation on laning or teamfighting whatsoever I could probably find more. As for your Lulu guide, I don't really know much about playing support but I took one look and saw no armour runes which pretty much removed any need to read further.[/quote] Mmmhmm, you just got told! (imagine it being said by sassy black woman for greatest effect)[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe]To get back on topic :P I always try to stay as positive as possible, giving people the least chance to think my criticism is hate :P. It is true, before I did that I also got downvoted by people that got criticised by me, because they thought I was evil and they wanted to cleanse the world by giving me a downvote muhahahaha :p So I try to make my criticism easy to read and very positive so that they know I am on their side. And to go off topic again :D I agree with Luther3000 :P -Meiyjhe PS: I know I don't make the best guides myself, but I just make them very enjoyable to read to compensate my awfulness :P[/quote]

[quote=FireLord]if someone wants i can help you upvote/downvote. just tell me which guides = )[/quote]

[quote=xHolyLightningx]Honestly, quite a few of your downvotes are deserved, I just read your Lulu guide and honestly I can see where down voters are coming from: [list] [*]You make it sound like [[Flash]] can be substituted on Lulu, when really it can't, Lulu does a lot of poking during the laning phase and not having any kind of gap closer/escape mechanism is basically painting a bulls-eye on yourself. [*]Your build includes literally no bonus magic resist, from masteries or runes, if your laning against a [[Sona]] or other high poke support your basically going to be taking a lot of damage in return for the odd [[Glitterlance]] poke. Hint: If your taking more damage than your giving out then you are losing trades. [*]Your runes are pretty bleh, the only two standard ones I would consider to fit on Lulu would be Magic Pen Marks and Gold Quints. AP Glyphs are taking the place of MR, which as I stated above is pretty costly, as someone already mentioned No Armor runes, it just makes you squisher than you already are, which hinders Lulu's poke ability significantly. [*][[Clarity]] isn't a great spell on Lulu and the reason you list for is also confusing. If I'm not playing a pre-made game then how am I expected to know that my ADC wastes mana like no tomorrow? Makes no sense to me. [*]Your skill sequence is all over the place, I honestly looked at it and thought you had used eenie meenie minie moe to select which skill you put a point in. [*]You said the [[Explorer]] mastery gives you a [[Sight Ward]], it doesn't. It gives you a mini-60 second ward, there is actually a difference. [*]Your items is where it really starts to get irritating. Supports do not just buy whatever has an aura or GP10 effect, a support should be looking to invest their gold into items which will pay off in the long run by saving them money which they would have otherwise had to of spent, or by aiding their team. In other words, every single gold counts. So I don't understand why you would buy a flask to start with, if you sell it early for a Philo stone and then you actually say "buy more health potions." For a start, Flask isn't a cheaper starting item than potions, it's more expensive unless you buy 7 potions,so you aren't saving any early money. You buy a Flash because it saves you money in the long run, insures you always have sustain when you are in lane and offers you luxury of a potion when you may not of had one, lets also not forget the fact that the resell gold of a Flask is 90g, which isn't even half the price. TL;DR: Keep the Flash until it actually pays for itself, as opposed to just selling it early to be less cost effective. [*]You mention [[Ninja Tabi]] and [[Mercury's Treads]] which are generally no-no items for supports, but fail to mention [[Boots of Mobility]] which allow for faster warding and helps [[Lulu]] with her low base movement spells as well as synergizing well with [[Whimsy]] [*]Please just remove the sentence "[[Sightstone]] is a good buy because you never have to buy another ward again." from your guide entirely, that's not true at all. [url=http://i.imgur.com/nKHpd.jpg]This[/url] image is from astrolia's amazing guide, look at every where you have to ward, you aren't responsible for the entire map but Dragon, Baron, River and bot lane are all your responsibility. Are you seriously going to try and say you can do that with two wards? [*][[Zeke's Herald]] used to be an amazing item, but with the removal of it's AtkSpd it's now an average support item which relies on team comp at best. [*]You should never even suggest selling your [[Ruby Sightstone]], no matter the stage of the game, it also means losing Baron and Dragon control which is harmful to your team. Also the item you recommend replacing it with, is sub-par. [*][[Zhonya's Hourglass]] is not a support item, it's a survivability item for AP mids, you shouldn't be building this over a utility item for your team. With the removal of [[Heart of Gold]], [[Randuin's Omen]] is also off the menu. [*]I looked, but I couldn't find any mention of Oracles or [[Vision Wards]], or really anything on counter-warding. [/list] I actually found more, but I'll stop here, the point of this topic isn't to pick apart your guides. However I feel you should actually check that your guides are truly the best they can be before complaining about troll votes, I wouldn't say give up making guides, I feel you should look at your guides and see what you can change, I hope I haven't offended you and that my feedback can help you improve or consider some changes to make to your guide. ^^[/quote]

[quote=Yukimaru]Well, just vote anonymsly, dont give a fuck or dont publish any guides. [quote=xHolyLightningx] Honestly, quite a few of your downvotes are deserved, I just read your Lulu guide and honestly I can see where down voters are coming from: [list] [*]You make it sound like [[Flash]] can be substituted on Lulu, when really it can't, Lulu does a lot of poking during the laning phase and not having any kind of gap closer/escape mechanism is basically painting a bulls-eye on yourself. [*]Your build includes literally no bonus magic resist, from masteries or runes, if your laning against a [[Sona]] or other high poke support your basically going to be taking a lot of damage in return for the odd [[Glitterlance]] poke. Hint: If your taking more damage than your giving out then you are losing trades. [*]Your runes are pretty bleh, the only two standard ones I would consider to fit on Lulu would be Magic Pen Marks and Gold Quints. AP Glyphs are taking the place of MR, which as I stated above is pretty costly, as someone already mentioned No Armor runes, it just makes you squisher than you already are, which hinders Lulu's poke ability significantly. [*][[Clarity]] isn't a great spell on Lulu and the reason you list for is also confusing. If I'm not playing a pre-made game then how am I expected to know that my ADC wastes mana like no tomorrow? Makes no sense to me. [*]Your skill sequence is all over the place, I honestly looked at it and thought you had used eenie meenie minie moe to select which skill you put a point in. [*]You said the [[Explorer]] mastery gives you a [[Sight Ward]], it doesn't. It gives you a mini-60 second ward, there is actually a difference. [*]Your items is where it really starts to get irritating. Supports do not just buy whatever has an aura or GP10 effect, a support should be looking to invest their gold into items which will pay off in the long run by saving them money which they would have otherwise had to of spent, or by aiding their team. In other words, every single gold counts. So I don't understand why you would buy a flask to start with, if you sell it early for a Philo stone and then you actually say "buy more health potions." For a start, Flask isn't a cheaper starting item than potions, it's more expensive unless you buy 7 potions,so you aren't saving any early money. You buy a Flash because it saves you money in the long run, insures you always have sustain when you are in lane and offers you luxury of a potion when you may not of had one, lets also not forget the fact that the resell gold of a Flask is 90g, which isn't even half the price. TL;DR: Keep the Flash until it actually pays for itself, as opposed to just selling it early to be less cost effective. [*]You mention [[Ninja Tabi]] and [[Mercury's Treads]] which are generally no-no items for supports, but fail to mention [[Boots of Mobility]] which allow for faster warding and helps [[Lulu]] with her low base movement spells as well as synergizing well with [[Whimsy]] [*]Please just remove the sentence "[[Sightstone]] is a good buy because you never have to buy another ward again." from your guide entirely, that's not true at all. [url=http://i.imgur.com/nKHpd.jpg]This[/url] image is from astrolia's amazing guide, look at every where you have to ward, you aren't responsible for the entire map but Dragon, Baron, River and bot lane are all your responsibility. Are you seriously going to try and say you can do that with two wards? [*][[Zeke's Herald]] used to be an amazing item, but with the removal of it's AtkSpd it's now an average support item which relies on team comp at best. [*]You should never even suggest selling your [[Ruby Sightstone]], no matter the stage of the game, it also means losing Baron and Dragon control which is harmful to your team. Also the item you recommend replacing it with, is sub-par. [*][[Zhonya's Hourglass]] is not a support item, it's a survivability item for AP mids, you shouldn't be building this over a utility item for your team. With the removal of [[Heart of Gold]], [[Randuin's Omen]] is also off the menu. [*]I looked, but I couldn't find any mention of Oracles or [[Vision Wards]], or really anything on counter-warding. [/list] I actually found more, but I'll stop here, the point of this topic isn't to pick apart your guides. However I feel you should actually check that your guides are truly the best they can be before complaining about troll votes, I wouldn't say give up making guides, I feel you should look at your guides and see what you can change, I hope I haven't offended you and that my feedback can help you improve or consider some changes to make to your guide. ^^ [/quote] I helped improving this Lulu Guide, some things changed some dont, personally i think people should up or downvote based on the % the guide has, right now the guide is fine for the percent it has(i have given it a upvote and i would defintly downvote it at around 75%). Item sequence on support is so situtional, if u just look at the spreedsheet for that u are fckd, if u go after that u should, when u do a support guide, include no items except starting items+first few items at all in the sheet. About Explorer mastery giving a sight ward, fuck who cares everyone with at least a IQ of 91 knows what kind of ward it does*sigh*, i mean yeah its wrong but giving a downvote for that?...i would only do that around ~95%. Oh yeah i that one perosn suggested Ninja Tabi/Merc's, i thought about writing something because this is just retarded, its also retarded to build Boots of Mobility, but probally forgot it later. Selling Ruby Sightstone is 100% Legit lategame, u trade Sightstone for 5 Wards everytime you base. Also after lane-phase everyone is responsible to ward the entire map, supports the most though. With priority Drag and Baron and depending on how the Game is going different parts of the map. In the end its always about opinions, because u call it bad doesnt mean its bad, if u write stuff about a guide you should always try to state that it is your opinion but doesnt mean its the only "right way to do", even if people go totally wrong and Stack 5 Archangels on Tryndamdere.[/quote]

[quote=Meiyjhe][quote=Yukimaru] personally i think people should up or downvote based on the % the guide has, right now the guide is fine for the percent it has(i have given it a upvote and i would defintly downvote it at around 75%). [/quote] +rep for that That is exactly the way it should be[/quote]

[quote=xHolyLightningx]We can agree to disagree regarding on how votes should be handled, however I didn't downvote the Lulu build, but I have to say I disagree with some of your points. [list] [*]How is building [[Boots of Mobility]] retarded? It isn't, it can save a lot of time during the warding stage, which ultimately means more EXP since you can get back to lane faster. Also with increased warding speed you can perhaps ward places you wouldn't have had time to before, such as jungle camps in order to track the enemy jungler or watch your buffs. And although we all preach how there's safety in numbers, 98% of the time a support goes warding alone, running into the enemy team can cost you your life, however the extra movespeed coupled with [[Whimsy]] may just save your life instead. [*]Whether or not everybody knows the difference between the type of wards listed, it doesn't mean getting it wrong is fine, attention to detail is important when making guides. [*]While we are in agreement that map vision is everyone's responsibility, typically people who have been farmer and gotten kills will have finished their builds fresh and ready for team fights, especially depending on the number of global objectives achieved such as Dragon and Towers, which means supports are required to keep wards on them in case people don't have any space left, which is perfectly understandable. Also how is selling your [[Ruby Sightstone]] for five wards every time you base more cost effective? It's wasting money, which you would otherwise be saving and could be spending on Elixers and Oracles to buff your stats and deny enemy vision, as well as giving you some added health and survivability. Ultimately, selling it late game will cost you more than it will benefit you. [/list][/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]Okay, this conversation isn't really about voting (which was the original subject), so I'm locking it. If you have criticism for devdevil's guides or comments, I suggest you reply on the appropriate guide discussions.[/quote]