How do you feel about dividing tournaments based on tier?
if i played in these i wouldnt like playing against challenger tier players, plus its supposed to be a community cup so i dont think people that just make accounts for the tournament should be allowed to play
however if you excluded them its not like it would make the community smaller, like in moons vlog he said there is a small percentage of people in the diamond and challenger tiers of play, so you really arnt excluding that many people, and if there is less a chance of faceroll that means people like me (bronze silver gold) players will want to play, and with there being much more lower tier players than higher tier players youll be having more people join the community
YES excluding people from the tournament isnt fair to them, and YES there arnt going to be enough people for a "high tier" tournament, BUT the point of the tournament is to make the community larger and by making a more "balanced" tournament youll be bringing in much more players
however if you excluded them its not like it would make the community smaller, like in moons vlog he said there is a small percentage of people in the diamond and challenger tiers of play, so you really arnt excluding that many people, and if there is less a chance of faceroll that means people like me (bronze silver gold) players will want to play, and with there being much more lower tier players than higher tier players youll be having more people join the community
YES excluding people from the tournament isnt fair to them, and YES there arnt going to be enough people for a "high tier" tournament, BUT the point of the tournament is to make the community larger and by making a more "balanced" tournament youll be bringing in much more players
Thanks to TheNamelessBard for the signature
jhoijhoi wrote:
Moon: I don't know what MobaFire considers as amateurs, but I do know that Challenger-level players are not amateurs.
The league of legends amateur circuit consists of challenger teams such as Curse Academy, 1 Trick Ponies, The Salad Bar, etc.
notice the word amateur.
To use a definition as broad and vague as amateur leads to a broad variation of skill
Thanks for the Signature MissMaw!
^I think it should be pretty obvious that the definition of "amateur" on Mobafire is not someone who plays in a challenger team.
Just watched your video, and although I understand your point, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. So far only Challenger players are disallowed to join tournaments, it's not like all Diamond/Plat members you mentioned in the video (I remember Suffix and Xaioli being mentioned anyway) are already being "punished for being good". Obviously the admins will have to look at how many teams/players would join should they split it up, that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to ask the community what they think about a split to begin with.
Also, as for improving, I think a lot of players will learn more from long, close matches that they win/lose to players of their own skill level than from onesided stomps against higher level players. It's not like only playing against much better players will allow someone to improve.
Just watched your video, and although I understand your point, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. So far only Challenger players are disallowed to join tournaments, it's not like all Diamond/Plat members you mentioned in the video (I remember Suffix and Xaioli being mentioned anyway) are already being "punished for being good". Obviously the admins will have to look at how many teams/players would join should they split it up, that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to ask the community what they think about a split to begin with.
Also, as for improving, I think a lot of players will learn more from long, close matches that they win/lose to players of their own skill level than from onesided stomps against higher level players. It's not like only playing against much better players will allow someone to improve.
Simple mathematics state that the Challenger teams will just win the prize every single time. Might as well just have MOBAFire sponsoring Challenger teams. So do you want MOBAFire seen as a community which only supports high-level players like Solomid? Because that's what's gonna happen in open tournies.
And not everyone has the luxury with which to be able to train themselves into a better LoL player and I'd bet just as many Unranked - Silver players love the game just as much as Challenger players but don't have the simple convenience of being able to develop into better players. But not everyone has the money to buy a good computer that doesn't lag or pay for a consistent internet connection when even everyone in the house is using it, or even the time to commit to solidly practicing game-mechanics. In other words, you basically penalize worst players in open tournaments because they might not have the time to be able to commit to becoming better LoL players, despite them loving the game just as much as those who are good.
The dilemma that I appreciate the MOBAFire team is struggling with is their intention and goodwill to cater to all and not discriminating them, as you say, Moon. But having a tournament where Gold and below will never ever have a chance of placing is basically discriminating them for being bad players. They can enter, but they'll only get stomped.
If you want MOBAFire to be seen as a site for equal opportunities or whatever, then you're going to have to put a divide somewhere. Bronze teams will never in an infinite amount of years be able to beat Challenger teams in a fair fight. There's gotta be at least a chance where they might pull through as the underdog and an open tourney is just not the way to do this.
I understand that there's no real fair way to ensure that bad players get a chance to win just as much as good players short of making it a lottery, but we can at least limit the difference in level for competition by splitting lower tiers and higher tiers into separate systems. It will still be unfair (Bronze will still lose to Gold and Silvers), but it will be less so.
And not everyone has the luxury with which to be able to train themselves into a better LoL player and I'd bet just as many Unranked - Silver players love the game just as much as Challenger players but don't have the simple convenience of being able to develop into better players. But not everyone has the money to buy a good computer that doesn't lag or pay for a consistent internet connection when even everyone in the house is using it, or even the time to commit to solidly practicing game-mechanics. In other words, you basically penalize worst players in open tournaments because they might not have the time to be able to commit to becoming better LoL players, despite them loving the game just as much as those who are good.
The dilemma that I appreciate the MOBAFire team is struggling with is their intention and goodwill to cater to all and not discriminating them, as you say, Moon. But having a tournament where Gold and below will never ever have a chance of placing is basically discriminating them for being bad players. They can enter, but they'll only get stomped.
If you want MOBAFire to be seen as a site for equal opportunities or whatever, then you're going to have to put a divide somewhere. Bronze teams will never in an infinite amount of years be able to beat Challenger teams in a fair fight. There's gotta be at least a chance where they might pull through as the underdog and an open tourney is just not the way to do this.
I understand that there's no real fair way to ensure that bad players get a chance to win just as much as good players short of making it a lottery, but we can at least limit the difference in level for competition by splitting lower tiers and higher tiers into separate systems. It will still be unfair (Bronze will still lose to Gold and Silvers), but it will be less so.
Mooninites wrote:
people that sign in Mobafire just to participate in tournaments is condemnable.
all-level is ok in the following terms:
- no monetary/physical prize (rather sponsor the higher level teams and dont bother with organizing the event)
- more games for highr ranked teams (harder to get the prize, since it is easy for such team to earn it),
- sponsor a team/create a mobafire team (we all know where that has gone to)
- create an open tournament, paralel to comunity cup.
Mobafire comunity teams could enter the open cup in a favorable bracket or something.
to me it really doesn't make much sense to participate in a tournament with a really nice prize when you look at the list of participants and see a bunch of high level players. it's discouraging.
the argument of "only 0.1% being challenger [...] so it's not worth it because they are so little" is the argument that goes against you since it will actually make little difference in numbers if they are allowed to participate (or not), otherwise pretty much offering someone a prize with low effort.
if you play against challenger while being gold i really expect you to have loads of fun and immediate understanding of your mistakes/loss (aside from the obvious reason of not being in challenger.)
other than that, i don't mind if you blog/vlog/post out of spite or trying to prove a point but at least prepare for it. you even contradicted yourself there (not to mention the constants "thanks, whatever" for your blog nomination". with a little more effort you could have made a decent argument, but you simply got carried away and didn't.
Mooninites wrote:
Sometimes it depresses me how stupid people are on this site.
Congratulations members of Mobafire, you've essentially voted to kill the tournament for anyone of Plat/Diamond/Challenger level.
****in' A, man. I bust my *** for diamond and I bust my *** for this community.
Do my rule: if you are diamond or challenger, your team CAN NOT participate unless you have active Moba members on your team. I wanted to play in the Moba tournament to get far and face psi guards team, and I can't remember but there was another team of a few plat/d with active members on it. I say no diamond unless they contribute X number of posts or guides, and no challenger period.
BOW DOWNBOW DOWN
BOW DOWN
throatslasher wrote:
****in' A, man. I bust my *** for diamond and I bust my *** for this community.
Do my rule: if you are diamond or challenger, your team CAN NOT participate unless you have active Moba members on your team. I wanted to play in the Moba tournament to get far and face psi guards team, and I can't remember but there was another team of a few plat/d with active members on it. I say no diamond unless they contribute X number of posts or guides, and no challenger period.
I would definitely support the minimum post/active member restriction because that's something that has to do with the tournament itself. I don't think you should exclude challenger players completely, especially considering there ain't that many around, let alone a whole bunch of them being active on mobafire. Also, I think it's very hard to draw a line because, as I said, Diamond players complain about Challenger players, Platinum players complain about Diamond, etc. etc.
GrandmasterD wrote:
Also, I think it's very hard to draw a line because, as I said, Diamond players complain about Challenger players, Platinum players complain about Diamond, etc. etc.
hard or not, doesn't seem to be consistent that, when you play for ladder, you play against people around the same level and if you organize a tournament you simply mash every kind of player level around and expect an underdog to rise all the time to win a very high-level team.
imagine your team being radomly invited for worlds/mlg/lcs and compete. are you expecting to win? will you even bother to travel? will you make such investment when you have to compare against such highly rated players?
Nobody expects the low teams/underdogs to win, and they shouldn't. This tournament is, in my opinion, for Moba members and people interested in Moba. The high diamond and challenger kids roll In to win and don't give a **** about Moba. Some of them have had accounts for 2-3 months for the tourneys and they haven't made a SINGLE ****ING POST.
BOW DOWNBOW DOWN
BOW DOWN
You need to log in before commenting.
Our tournaments are meant for amateurs
Moon: I don't know what MobaFire considers as amateurs, but I do know that Challenger-level players are not amateurs.