My ideas on a new scouting system

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=vynertje] I would like to ask you, wouldn't you think it is a good idea to make the scout rank not +rep based? because thats the whole point of this thread [/quote] Yes, but your idea doesn't work. This subject has been discussed in the scout and vet forums pretty extensively and a lot better ideas have come up, but haven't been implemented. The reason the admins like the +Rep system is because they feel a high amount of Rep signifies trust that the community places in an individual. That's why Rep is used for promotion to higher status in the community, including the scout position. You want everyone to elect scouts? That's exactly what Rep is for. [quote=MyRepublic] People claim mobafire is a democracy, but I don't remember us voting in this shitty system of ranking guides. I think if the community could vote for a new way to rate guides we'd be better off. As it is it seems more like a dictatorship that pretends to be a democracy, and clings to the ideology of a democracy only in order to maintain its footing. "1) A mod/host would have too much power. The whole point about Scouting or even guides on MobaFire is that it is a community/majority vote. There isn't one person in this whole entire site who can claim they are higher than anyone else in this regard. Everyone is equal." That may be how it is, but clinging to that system and ideology is what is bringing us down as a guide site. You need some people in a voting system to have more power than the general populace. Why do you think things like parliament and senates were invented? Everyone being equal isn't democracy it's anarchy. And it has shown to be such so far. [/quote] I don't remember voting whether the united states would be a democracy or not either. Funny how that works. You say you want people to vote on a new system. For one, you're putting your trust in the same pool of people that's responsible for shitty guides being upvoted. Two, permanent C2V is often requested by quite a few members of the community and most people seem confused as to why it isn't in place. This feature was responsible for some of the worst score inflation and essentially a majority of Mobafire's bad reputation. And people want it back for some reason. So basically we've established that the Mobafire community isn't capable of making all the decisions because quite frankly a lot of people are stupid. That's why we have admins structure the site and decide on what improvements and changes to make. The future of Mobafire affects them a lot more than us. I also find it hilarious that you're supporting a dictatorial approach to scout election in the name of democracy. Instead of having a hundred people support a community member's promotion, you'd rather have one person just pick a bunch of people. I hope you see the irony there. Also, nothing is "bringing us down as a guide site." Mobafire has had problems with guide quality for a long, long time. It has still grown to be the biggest League of Legends community there is. No other fan site compares in size. Mobafire has improved a lot over the couple years I've been around, including the foundation of the very scout system we're discussing. The reason why Mobafire is so successful is that it places a lot of power in the hands of the average member. Anyone can write a top guide, anyone can cast their vote on other guides. Everyone matters. That's the thing the admins want to keep, rather than just adopting solomid's guide filtration which clearly works better than ours. I don't mean to flip out at you but when you paint the admins of this site as a bunch of devious dictators, it's just disrespectful and ungrateful. If you really thought that, you wouldn't bother sticking around. This isn't a country, it's a website which you're free to leave at any time. Obviously they're doing something right. I don't agree with all of the staff's decisions but they care a lot more about the community than you seem to think.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi][quote=PsiGuard] That's the thing the admins want to keep, rather than just adopting solomid's guide filtration which clearly works better than ours. [/quote] How is it better? I'm genuinely curious. I don't visit Solomid and don't care to.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=jhoijhoi] [quote=PsiGuard] That's the thing the admins want to keep, rather than just adopting solomid's guide filtration which clearly works better than ours. [/quote] How is it better? I'm genuinely curious. I don't visit Solomid and don't care to. [/quote] Pretty simple in theory though in practice it's respectably complex. Solomid mods choose Approved guides based on pretty strict criteria based on the completeness of the guide and the author's credentials. You have to have at least 100 ranked games with the champion or something. They also require you to have a minimum set of chapters that cover build and gameplay. This means the only Approved guides are from players very experienced with their champions and who have taken the time to write a pretty comprehensive guide. Featured guides are basically just from pros. If you are diamond 3 or above you can apply for your guide to be Featured. The criteria are fairly similar but not as harsh as Approved guides. I guess that's because they want the people who don't have a super high soloqueue rating to put a lot of serious effort into their guide in order to get it Approved. Basically the mods decide which guides get the most views. There are votes, but there's no hierarchy or top guide that the community votes into place. The guides that pass mod inspection get the vast majority of views. This means you get quality guides (though sometimes no updated ones >.>), but the community at large has nothing to do with it.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Okay, so what from their system could apply to MobaFire's? Already we have high elo guides topping the charts regardless of score due to the way they are weighted, and generally speaking, the high elo guides are good, not bad. Even if there was a tier above "Featured" (for scouted/high elo), I doubt there'd be any guide authors who could fulfil a criteria of 100 ranked games played for x champion. Even then, you could get someone like Athene, who instalocks Ryze in ranked and doesn't do well, writing a guide. Wait, did that happen already? o.o My main point is, how can MobaFire improve the current guide system beyond: + Vote decay + Wipe slate clean of guides, archive all guides, remove all votes[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]I think vote decay would help a lot. I honestly don't know what else to do other than solomid's approach. Quite frankly, the majority of the community doesn't know what a good guide is, nor are they qualified to judge the viability of a build. Keep in mind that over 50% of ranked League players aren't even out of silver, that's not even counting all the unranked players. If we really wanted to ensure quality guides got the views, not just whatever the majority of the community thinks is good, we'd have to scrap the guide rating system and just have the scouts choose guides to feature. Then it would be a good idea to restrict the scout rank to people knowledgeable enough about the game. Then you might as well just do exactly what solomid does, which isn't going to happen. (So basically, yeah, vote decay :D) That, and I think there are some things to motivate scouts that would be great, but we've already discussed that in the Scout forums and the admins don't really consider it a priority. Also for some reason we decided forcing scouts to comment and the whole guide review tab was a bad idea. Not sure why that happened.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]By "we", who do you mean? Because I've always been an advocate of Comment to Scout.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]You all are still not dealing with the topic at hand: How are we going to get the scouting system back on its feet? There is literally nothing happening out there now, from what I can tell, so why don't you give me a try? I at least have the motivation, time and dedication to this site to make something of this, instead of all your 'this is not going to work' without doing something yourselves.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]Vyn, just take a step back from yourself for a minute. My attitude of "this is not going to work" stems from 18 threads amounting to 55 pages of comments FROM MY OWN THREADS ALONE in the scouting forum. The Scouting forum has 3 pages of threads. I'm not even MENTIONING the other threads I have participated in, but did not CREATE. AND this doesn't count all the threads I've created or participated in other forums, such as Support, Build & Guide Discussion etc. I have talked about the Scouting System to DEATH. Ever since the Scout System came out, which was December, 2011. That's 2 years of suggestions! My attitude is defeatist because NOTHING EVER GETS DONE about the Scouting system. And absolutely no offence to you at all, honestly, but I don't think *you* are suddenly going to be the reason why the Scouting system starts running again. So. Here is my 2 cents. + Scouting is dead and all scouts should be descouted, with all guides unscouted. + Only high elo AND respected members of the community can be scouts - no unranked scouts and no "unknown member" scouts. + Scout promotion can't be a public nomination/voting application because WE DO NOT WANT SCOUTS TO BE A POPULARITY CONTEST. + Scout points SHOULD DECAY with every season.[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]It seems to me you haven't read all my comments thoroughly. I have already mentioned we could also just hand-pick them. I swear, just give me the chance and I'll give EVERYTHING to get scouting to work again. If that doesn't work, I'll give up. Until then, I'll keep nitpicking.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]I don't understand what you're asking for. Are you asking to be a scout? I'll nominate you in the forums. It seems you're not reading my comments thoroughly. You CAN'T hand pick scouts. It cannot be a popularity contest. It can only ever be a filtered process: x amount of +rep or x elo or whatever. But as soon as it comes down to personal choice, the system becomes corrupted.[/quote]