Why isn't anyone talking about the Nidalee Rework?

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]"Broad kit" LOL. You could literally just give Nidalee a no mana, low CD gapcloser as her ult and she would function nearly exactly the same.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Mooninites] [quote=BlueArtist] Tell me more about how [[Quinn]]'s ult is the worst. [/quote] what ultimate is worse than [[quinn]]'s [/quote] You cannot simply state that one ultimate ability is the worst in the game. Champions should be looked at as a whole and one shouldn't single out an ability. In the current state I think: [[Idol of Durand]], [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]], [[Vengeful Maelstrom]], [[Unbreakable Will]], [[Impale]], [[Thunder Claws]], [[Tremors]], and [[Radiance]] are quite awful as well. They are at least as bad as [[Tag Team]] in their current state. [/quote] [[Idol of Durand]] is considered one of the most impactful ultimates in the game. The problem with [[Galio]] is the rest of his kit. Same goes for [[Vengeful Maelstrom]], it's actually an incredible ultimate, but [[maokai]] has other issues. [[Unbreakable Will]] is a fantastic ultimate, I literally have no fucking clue why you would think this is a bad ultimate. The problem with [[impale]] is that you can [[flash]] out of it. So yes, I guess that makes it a bad ultimate. [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] is okay, it's pretty strong as an ult the problem is it's range. [[Tremors]] and [[Thunder Claws]] are bad ultiamtes, I'll give you that. [[Radiance]] isn't great, but it's not worse than [[Tag Team]]. You can potentially grant your team up to 210 AD late game, but a lot of it can be irrelevant. The usefulness of [[Tag Team]] is essentially to get to lane faster, run away, get to a fight faster, or execute someone. It has very little practicality in any scenario and her execute isn't even that strong after looking at the values. [/quote] [[Idol of Durand]] has a cool down that's off the charts and generally requires some form of repositioning skill to actually be able to do its job. Other than that it can easily be canceled out by on-hit interrupts (e.g. [[Bear Stance]]) and [[Cleanse]] and [[Quicksilver Sash]] cancel it out completely. [[Vengeful maelstrom]] has an upkeep cost that is way too high and a pretty hefty cool down so you cannot reposition it; therefore you cannot keep up with mobility. It's a decent ultimate for damage reduction but there are at least 10 alternatives which are (a lot) better. [[Unbreakable Will]] does nothing. Sure it gives you a good chunk of AD and reduction but [[Alistar]] does not scale with AD and his cool downs are as long as the universe is old. Sure you can nullify CC and counterengage but that's it. Once his Q and W are down, [[Alistar]] is a tank you can ignore; [[Unbreakable Will]] does nothing to change that. Lastly, yes you can tank towers with it but then again, everyone can. [[Impale]] requires another repositioning skill which makes its actual cool down a lot higher (cuz [[Flash]]), also you can [[Flash]] out of it and QSS nullifies it. On top of that; it really does no damage. [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] puts you in a very dangerous spot to begin with and it took a HUGE nerf back in S3 when they changed the way penetration works. The range is laughable and again, QSS nullifies it. Good we're on the same page regarding that. [[Radiance]] isn't amazing because it falls off incredibly quickly. For an ultimate it's just not impactful enough. It's not a terrible skill in general, but as ultimate it just doesn't quite cut it. [rule] [[Tag Team]] has a few uses. Generally it's used as chase tool and assassination tool and sometimes turns into an escape tool. [[Shadow Assault]] esque. During all stages of the game, it's (almost) impossible for any AA based champion to 1v1 [[Quinn]] as a result of her blind. [[Tag Team]] is a good consistent steroid and decent finisher. The major problem is the cool down which is absurd and obviously the fact you're trading 525 range for 125. [[Tag Team]] has a lot of uses that are generally overlooked. I'm not arguing that it's a great ultimate but it's definitely a lot better than people think. It contributes to her 1v1 potential and split-pushing power. On top of that it's a solid disengage, engage and even re-engage tool. [[Tag Team]] has multiple uses and doesn't require other skills in order to be useful. The cool down is heavy, as are of all the others I've mentioned, but at least the consistency is high. [quote=Mooninites]This is honestly the dumbest post I've ever seen you make. None of the ultimates you listed are worse than [[Quinn]]'s, and you can absolutely look at ultimate's individually. In fact, a lot of the ultimates you listed are incredibly strong.[/quote] Thank you for making yourself look like the idiot you are so I don't have to. The ultimates I've mentioned have major strategic flaws of which one is consistency. In any strategic game, consistency is the most important aspect. However, you apparently fail to realise this. [/quote] Cooldown does not always determine the strenght of an ultimate. Virtually every hard CC in the game can be removed by [[Clenase]] or QSS, that doesn't make it bad. It has th same cooldown as [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] and a longer range. Surely you would not say that [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] is a bad ultimate. It's roughly the same cooldown as [[Onslaught of Shadows]], [[Crowstorm]], [[Monsoon]], etc. You probably wouldn't call those bad ultimates; but I guess by your logic they are because of the cooldown. Tell me what ultimate gives a 600 range 20% AoE damage reduction. The cooldown is high, but the mana cost is 70 + 30 for every second, it's really not that bad. You can't reposition it, but a well positioned one is incredible. We're talking about the strength of the ultimate, if you fail to use it properly thats on you the player, it shouldn't have anything to do with the ultimate itself [[Unbreakable Will]] gives a 50-70% physical and magic damage reduction. It also breaks CC and gives a pretty substantial AD steroid for 7 seconds. I don't know about you, but a 50-70% damage reduction is pretty fucking significant. I mean you have to be a retard to say it does nothing. I don't know about you, but i use [[impale]] to suppress someone, not to nuke them, I really don't give a shit that it does minimal damage. It has it's flaws, but still more useful than [[Tag team]] [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] - the fact that they changed the way penetration works does not make the 60/90/120 Armor and MR you get irrelevant. Again, just because you can buy an item or take a summoner to cleanse CC does not make it bad; I mean, if you're going to pull anything out of your ass, at the least pull your head out with it [/quote] You don't read. Consistency defines it, not cool downs in general. [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] is instant, [[Amumu]] can do other things while the enemy is stunned (not technically a stun since it doesn't interrupt but w/e), [[Galio]] can not. Also, [[Amumu]] has a built-in gap-closer and [[Galio]] doesn't which contributes to its consistency. On its own, [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] isn't that great either. [[Onslaught of Shadows]] and [[Crowstorm]] even come with a gap-closer; making them a lot more consistent. [[Unbreakable Will]] doesn't change the fact that [[Alistar]] is a tank one can simply ignore due to his high cool downs on Q and W. It's like "Look at me, you can't kill me", to which the appropriate response is "That's fine, we don't really have to.". And QSS instantly removes the suppress, thus nullifying the ability. However, go ahead. Go ahead and convince people that an ultimate that can be completely fucked over by an item that costs 1880 Gold is still an ultimate which is consistently stronger than [[Tag Team]]. It doesn't make it bad, it makes it less consistent. Consistency is everything. Your combo can be the most badass thing in the world, but if you can almost never use it then why would you even bother? The 60/90/120 resistances isn't terrible but you gain it after the channel so if the channel gets interrupted you won't get it at all. And even so, you're vulnerable while channeling so you take additional damage then. [[Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser]] takes 1 total second from you during which you would be able to do damage. [/quote] If [[Galio]] doesn't have a gapcloser that's a problem with him and the rest of his kit, it doesn't make his ultimate weaker in power. [[Ubbreakable Will]] - most ridiculous argument I've heard. I guess [[Shyvana]]'s ultimate is shit too because you can ignore her. If you have to spend 1600 gold ([[Quicksilver Sash]]/[[Mikael's Crucible]]) just to deal with one ultimate that's doesn't make it bad. QSS is a pretty bad defensive item in it's own right, a lot worse than [[Banshee's Veil]] or [[Guardian Angel]] on a carry. I don't really buy the consistency argument at all. It's true that it plays some element, but if you're going to bring that up, where is the consistency in [[Tag Team]]. When are their good opportunities to go into melee range with an ADC? Not many, and virtually none in a teamfight [quote] You wonder so much because you don't read properly. Ignorance isn't always bliss [/quote] I'd still rather be ignorant than a retard.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Why are you being so insulting? Really doesn't help an argument if you have to insult the other person directly to make a point.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]If I wanted advice on how to conduct myself, I probably wouldn't go to you for it, not that I even care what people on mobafire think about my personality[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]As incredibly productive as this argument has been for both sides I'm sure, this is the end of it. Not only has this gone incredibly off-topic, you two (moon and gmd) are obviously not going to convince each other of anything and are just fanning each other's flames. If you guys want to post more in this thread, the next post better be about nidalee.[/quote]

[quote=FantasySniper][quote=Mooninites] If [[Galio]] doesn't have a gapcloser that's a problem with him and the rest of his kit, it doesn't make his ultimate weaker in power. [/quote] Isn't a restriction to its use considered to be reducing its power? Something is limited in its power if it is more capable of functioning in situation "x" over situation "y". A comparison for this is a screwdriver with a magnet on its tip: obviously you want the magnet because it complements its function, and without that magnet, you would consider it less productive by comparison. (Gapcloser=Magnet, Ulti=Screwdriver, i.e. [[Amumu]]'s [[Curse of the sad mummy]] + [[Bandage Toss]]) [quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0] "Broad kit" LOL. You could literally just give Nidalee a no mana, low CD gapcloser as her ult and she would function nearly exactly the same. [/quote] I laughed at this harder than I should have. I only see the Javelin and her pounce when I see Nidalee's. They look like someone with a gun moving backwards. With a jetpack. And a sniper rifle.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Can someone link her rework? I'd like to see the numbers for myself before i make any judgments about anything[/quote]

[quote=Kazega][quote=utopus] Can someone link her rework? I'd like to see the numbers for myself before i make any judgments about anything [/quote] there aren't any numbers yet. its still in Alpha and internal testing as to what they want to do exactly last I heard. It is pretty clear that her spears and Pounce are going to get nerfed a bit.[/quote]

[quote=Kazega]Red post with Numbers: [quote] General: Basic attack hit timing adjusted to better match visual Death Recap now properly differentiates between Javelin Toss and Takedown, and Bushwhack and Pounce (R) Aspect of the Cougar now has 4 ranks and is automatically trained at level 1 UI elements added to support modified passive Movement Speed increased to 340 from 335 (P) Prowl Movement Speed in brush reduced to 10% from 15% Movement Speed in brush is now increased to 30% while moving toward visible enemy champions within 5500 range Damaging champions with Javelin Toss and Bushwhack causes her to Hunt these targets for 4 seconds, granting Prowl’s increased Movement Speed toward them and enhancing her next Takedown, Pounce, and Swipe against them Nidalee ignores unit collision while Prowl and Hunt are active (Q) Javelin Toss Minimum base damage reduced to 50/75/100/125/150 from 55/95/140/185/230 Maximum base damage reduced to 150/225/300/375/450 from 137/237/350/462/575 Minimum Ability Power ratio reduced to 40% from 65% Maximum Ability Power ratio reduced to 120% from 162.5% Cooldown adjusted to 8/7/6/5 with rank in (R) Aspect of the Cougar from 6 at all ranks Now deals maximum damage at 1300 range rather than 1500 Missile visuals adjusted to better match player expectation Applies the Hunt debuff to enemy champions hit (Q) Takedown Deals 33% increased damage to Hunted targets Minimum base damage reduced to 4/20/50/90 from x/40/70/100 Maximum non Hunt base damage reduced to 10/50/125/225 from x/120/210/300 Maximum Hunt base damage introduced at 13/67/167/300 Maximum non Hunt Total Attack Damage ratio reduced to 250% from 300% Maximum Hunt Total Attack Damage ratio introduced at 333% Minimum non Hunt Ability Power ratio introduced at 24% Maximum non Hunt Ability Power ratio introduced at 60% Maximum Hunt Ability Power ratio introduced at 80% Now deals entirely magic damage instead of entirely physical damage Maximum damage is now dealt when the target is at 20% current Health, up from 0% Nidalee gains 75 Attack Range while Takedown is active (W) Bushwhack Ground duration reduced to 2 minutes from 4 Debuff duration reduced to 4 seconds from 8 Now only affects 1 enemy per trap Flat base damage reduced to 20/40/60/80/100 from 80/125/170/215/260 Flat damage Ability Power ratio removed (was 40%) No longer shreds enemy Armor and Magic Resist Now additionally deals 12/14/16/18/20% of the target’s current Health over its duration Now additionally deals 1% of the target’s current Health per 50 Ability power over its duration Cooldown reduced to 17/15/13/11/9 from 18 at all ranks Mana cost reduced to 40/45/50/55/60 from 60/75/90/105/120 Team color indicators added to better indicate trigger radius Persistent pulsing particle adjusted for better visibility Applies the Hunt debuff to enemy champions hit (W) Pounce Now moves toward the player’s cursor rather than Nidalee’s current facing Base damage reduced to 50/100/150/200 from x/125/175/225 Ability Power ratio reduced to 30% from 40% Cooldown increased to 5 seconds from 3.5 Can now be used to jump to Hunted targets at up to 700 range by hovering the cursor over the Hunted target Killing a unit while in Cougar form reduces Pounce’s current cooldown to 1.5 seconds if it is currently higher (E) Primal Surge Base healing increased to 55/95/135/175/215 from 50/85/120/155/190 Ability Power ratio reduced to 50% from 70% Attack Speed buff duration reduced to 6 seconds from 7 (E) Swipe Now targets toward the player’s cursor rather than Nidalee’s current facing Base damage reduced to 70/130/190/250 from x/150/225/300 Ability Power ratio reduced to 45% from 60% Swiping a Hunted target reduces Pounce’s current cooldown to 1.5 seconds if it is currently higher Cooldown reduced to 5 seconds from 6 (R) Aspect of the Cougar No longer grants 20 Movement Speed while in Cougar form Cooldown adjusted to 5.00/3.75/2.50/1.25 from 4.00 at all ranks Nidalee gains vision of all Hunted targets while in Cougar form" [/quote][/quote]

[quote=FantasySniper][quote=Kazega]All dis awesomeness [/quote] In a nutshell: Hit AP ratios and bas damages hard with a nerf-hammer. Replaced with tons of chase utility. TY Rito, some faith in humanity has been restored.[/quote]