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About AP champs

Creator: Max Carter October 22, 2011 6:38pm
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JEFFY40HANDS
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Mana is better on Ryze than AP. Not saying you can't build some AP, but Id go

MPen Reds/Flat Mana Yellows/Mana Per Level or Flat Mana Blues/1 Flat Mana Quint/2 Mana per level Quints

9/0/21

or

9/10/11

Skill order

Desperate Power> Overload> Rune Prison> Spell Flux

Items(- means the item gets consumed at some point):
- Sapphire Crystal+ Health Potionx2
- Catalyst the Protector
Sorcerer's Shoes
- Tear of the Goddess
Rod of Ages
- Glacial Shroud
Banshee's Veil
Archangel's Staff
Frozen Heart
Rabadon's Deathcap

Should make you a nuke machine.

As for laning with Ryze, his overload is so inexpensive and on such a short cool down. Last hit with it AND harass. You can win your lane easily by poking with Overload everytime it is up. It's rather easy IMO.
Xenasis
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^ You get your Tear WAY too late, get it earlier so you stack it easy.

Also, get your Frozen Heart before the AA staff, and a Void Staff instead of a Deathcap. AP really sucks on him to be frank. You'll want to get that mana and armour (and CDR) before you think about splashing 1.8k on something that gives you a minimal amount of damage.
JEFFY40HANDS
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Tear is right after boots. Fail to see the "way to late" there. And Frozen Heart's upgraded stats aren't amazing enough to get before AA.

Rabadon's is still a valid option. If the enemy team isn't stacking MR there's almost no point on getting %Mpen.

The lack of other useful Mana items is why I suggested Rabadon's; bolster what little AP you have. More damage is more damage, simply stacking mana won't get the job done.
Pozsich
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you should go Tear - Boots - Catalyst for earlier stacks.
Joobieo#41288
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Tear is right after boots. Fail to see the "way to late" there. And Frozen Heart's upgraded stats aren't amazing enough to get before AA.

Rabadon's is still a valid option. If the enemy team isn't stacking MR there's almost no point on getting %Mpen.

The lack of other useful Mana items is why I suggested Rabadon's; bolster what little AP you have. More damage is more damage, simply stacking mana won't get the job done.


IMO Rabadon's on Ryze is pointless. Hes a tank mage lets face it folks, he needs to stay alive lol. I build him tanky the whole way. Instead of the Rabadon's get a abyssal specter.
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Xenasis
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Tear is right after boots. Fail to see the "way to late" there. And Frozen Heart's upgraded stats aren't amazing enough to get before AA.

Rabadon's is still a valid option. If the enemy team isn't stacking MR there's almost no point on getting %Mpen.

The lack of other useful Mana items is why I suggested Rabadon's; bolster what little AP you have. More damage is more damage, simply stacking mana won't get the job done.


It's right after boots AND catalyst. That's basically 2.5k gold. Get it after rank 1 boots, or before rank 1 boots, getting it so late is stupid, there's not much point in even getting it then.

You're missing out on loads of stacks - you could be hitting so much harder. 2.5k is a lot of gold early on, the more stacks you get the harder you hit later on - and Ryze doesn't stack it that easy.

Frozen Heart's upgraded stats are really good - and can save you, or your team's ***es on multiple occasions. You get 55 Armour, 20% AS reduction, 75 mana and 5% CDR. For 1.2k you can't go wrong, really - especially when you'd only otherwise be wasting money on AP - which is far less than optimal - especially when you get your tear so late.

Give me one good reason as to why "stacking mana won't get the job done", it's like arguing you should get AP late game as MF because "stacking AD won't get the job done".

Regarding the Rabadon's -
Assuming you have -
Boots, RoA, Tear, Frozen Heart, Banshee's (no particular order), you have one item slot left. Considering that this is the last item you buy, and, quite obviously, very late game - people WILL have some magic resistance. Even if it's just a Banshee's, it still adds up - and nobody completes a full item build without any defences - nobody sane, anyway. Compared to getting a lot of AP, getting a bit of AP and 40% MPen is a GREAT deal - even if they aren't "stacking" it.
Pozsich
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^
Pretty much everything Xenasis is saying is right.
On a champion who relies on high mana more than AP it's just silly to say stacking mana won't get the job done, but getting a rabadons to boost what little AP you got will.
JEFFY40HANDS
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*shrugs* I'll build my way you build your's. Getting Catalyst>Tear, getting mobility>tear imo which is why it's third. It's inexpensive and easily farmed up in a few minutes. Catalyst gives me sustain with flat mana+hp, and a passive which makes staying in lane a breeze. Mobility is important to avoid ganks or to get in and out of CSing. As well because overall Ryze is a DPS mage/tank thing. Not a "true nuke" his damage per spell is less, the overall importance is to attack frequently, not to attack "hard" persay. So getting early game magic pen benefits him more than getting damage through building mana.

I'll concede that Rabadon's is not optimal. Void Staff is prbably the better option, but it gives AP and %pen. Spell Flux already reduces MR by a flat amount per application. With runes and sorc boots we're right around 30Mpen. Which means true damage against most squishy champs. Any bonus MR they build can be reduced effectively by Spell Flux devaluing the %pen of Void Staff. If anything Haunting Guise though an early game item, would still have better synergy than Void Staff because of the flat Mpen.

But because im "wrong" that must make your opinions "right" and therefore makes all the factual evidence (some of it more preference I suppose) wrong too?
Max Carter
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I prefer getting Tear first, then boots, then catalyst, but i'm loosing my lane always (on harassing area) :/ Ryze is weak until he gets mana...

For 6th item, I could get Void or Abyssal... maybe abyssal is better, reaching 50 magic resistance reduction + 15% spell penetration, right?
If I get void, i'll have around 35 magic resistance penetration and 55% spell penetration... IDK wich is better... but abyssal gives more magic resistance...

i think here we reach preference point, or math point xD

I played a few more times, getting used to his farm, until tear he can't farm well... but, i was facing orianna, she can do a lot of damage, but I was fine, did something stupid but nvm... the problem is, i don't think orianna is a top tier! When i faced annie i was 0/4! Imagine when I face IDK, morgana, anivia, brand, malza, cassio, le blanc?? (for me they're the stronger casters, am I wrong?)... I'm afraid of getting melted :/
Thx for Nyoike for this sig! Tanks FTW s2
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HAR HAR. I'm sorry, the Orianna thing is funny. I think Orianna is pretty much the best AP caster in the right hands. Ofc Morgana can beat any caster, but probly not as good as Orianna in teamfights, unless she land her ult on at least 2 people.

Annie is kinda useless once you learn to counter her, though that's not easy XD I find if I stay back while her stun is up for long enough, she'll generally use stun to keep farming. Then you can harrass her while the stun is down.

Honestly, if you learn to farm with the auto attack you can get Tear pretty fast in mid. Not really seeing the problem.


@JEFFRY40HANDS saying Haunting Guise has better synergy doesn't matter tons. The tossdown between it and Void Staff is if they have someone stacking MR, if they do the %MPen is better, if no one is stacking MR then Haunting Guise is better for the health and CDR.

And no one said Haunting Guise was wrong, Rabadons was wrong. For sure. (: And I believe the Tear or Catalyst first is pretty much preference.
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