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7.4 Tier List + AMA

Creator: H4xDefender February 20, 2014 5:06pm
4307 posts - page 305 of 431
OTGBionicArm
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NicknameMy wrote:
Why Fervor? It only procs on auto-attacking and Garen doesn't really AA that much, or does your Garen build somehow Phantom Dancer?

Also, some math at which point Deathfire Touch exceeds Thunderlord's Decree .

Thunderlord's Decree damage per second: 0.5-9 + 1% of bonus AD + 0.5% of AP.
Deathfire Touch damage per second: 2 + 16.66% of bonus AD + 6.66% of bonus AP

So if you can constantly proc damage, Deathfire Touch is definitly stronger.

Now, how long has Deathfire Touch to run in order to beat Thunderlord's Decree per 20 seconds.

For the base damage: 5-90 seconds

For the AD: 1.2 seconds

For the AP: 1.5 seconds

So if you have a decent amount of AP or AD, Deathfire Touch is ALWAYS better than Thunderlord's Decree , even if you just proc it once (even on AoE). Only if you have no damage items at all Thunderlord's Decree is better than Deathfire Touch .

My Garen has with Black Cleaver and Death's Dance a good amount of bonus AD, same goes for early with AD runes. So, welp.


Ferver is nearly always stacked when farming, so assuming you engage trades with auto>Q, and maybe another auto before you start spinning, its a pretty decent addition of damage.

As for your maths, this assumes you CAN constantly deal damage, which you often cant. Thunderlords is better for short bursts. So think like, Q, auto, E, thunderlords proc. Pretty decent burst into your spinning, and Garen's endgame is to simply do this combo and ult you to death anyway. He's not a harass machine, which deathfire is tailored to.
PsiGuard
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Pretty sure Deathfire Touch is bad unless you're building full AD. You have no way to reliably proc it on several champions or poke from a distance. Even if you're building offensively it still seems pretty bad because of the low base damage. Keep in mind it has 6 base damage and only scales off bonus stats, so you get virtually no damage out of it before you actually buy items.

Fervor of Battle seems okay for the reason OTG stated (easy to keep it stacked in lane phase) but it's still pretty trash outside of that situation since Garen's autoattack frequency is one of the lowest in the game due to his spin taking up a lot of time in fights. It's also not too easy to stack outside of lane phase.

I'm pretty sure Thunderlord's Decree is going to be your go-to offensive keystone since Garen's trades depend on cooldown anyway. Just trade every 20s (remember it got buffed this patch) and it should be more effective than Fervor throughout the game.
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Out Of Pancakes
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NicknameMy wrote:
Why Fervor? It only procs on auto-attacking and Garen doesn't really AA that much, or does your Garen build somehow Phantom Dancer?

Also, some math at which point Deathfire Touch exceeds Thunderlord's Decree .

Thunderlord's Decree damage per second: 0.5-9 + 1% of bonus AD + 0.5% of AP.
Deathfire Touch damage per second: 2 + 16.66% of bonus AD + 6.66% of bonus AP

So if you can constantly proc damage, Deathfire Touch is definitly stronger.

Now, how long has Deathfire Touch to run in order to beat Thunderlord's Decree per 20 seconds.

For the base damage: 5-90 seconds

For the AD: 1.2 seconds

For the AP: 1.5 seconds

So if you have a decent amount of AP or AD, Deathfire Touch is ALWAYS better than Thunderlord's Decree , even if you just proc it once (even on AoE). Only if you have no damage items at all Thunderlord's Decree is better than Deathfire Touch .

My Garen has with Black Cleaver and Death's Dance a good amount of bonus AD, same goes for early with AD runes. So, welp.



But the thing is that you won't be able to deal damage during 20 seconds, plus Deathfire Touch procs on spells ONLY whereas you can proc Thunderlord's Decree with spells AND auto-attacks.


Now, let's try something: let's assume we get one Thunderlord's Decree vs 1 to 4 Deathfire Touch procs and assuming champions only build additional AD or AP but never both at the same time.
Those conditions, imho, would cover the most common scenarios.

Ranging from 10 to 200 bonus AP or AD, level 6, 12 and 18:
Pink squares curve is Thunderlord's Decree (TlD), the other ones are 1 to 4 Deathfire Touch procs (DfT).
X is bonus AP or AD, Y is base damage.

AP champion:
Spoiler: Click to view


AD champion:

Spoiler: Click to view


To sum it up, I'd say:

- Thunderlord seems really good on AP champions that autoattack in the mix ( Ekko, Fizz, Lulu?). You need AT LEAST 3 procs of DfT to be sometimes better.

Spoiler: Click to view


- Deathfire touch is better for AD champions if you can proc it 3+ times AND if you build a lot of AD.
Otherwise, Thunderlord is decent, but you might as well want to take another mastery.


EDIT: Even though I did and rechecked the maths, I may have misinterpreted/missed something, feel free to disagree with what I did.
Mooninites
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NicknameMy wrote:
Why Fervor? It only procs on auto-attacking and Garen doesn't really AA that much, or does your Garen build somehow Phantom Dancer?

Also, some math at which point Deathfire Touch exceeds Thunderlord's Decree .

Thunderlord's Decree damage per second: 0.5-9 + 1% of bonus AD + 0.5% of AP.
Deathfire Touch damage per second: 2 + 16.66% of bonus AD + 6.66% of bonus AP

So if you can constantly proc damage, Deathfire Touch is definitly stronger.

Now, how long has Deathfire Touch to run in order to beat Thunderlord's Decree per 20 seconds.

For the base damage: 5-90 seconds

For the AD: 1.2 seconds

For the AP: 1.5 seconds

So if you have a decent amount of AP or AD, Deathfire Touch is ALWAYS better than Thunderlord's Decree , even if you just proc it once (even on AoE). Only if you have no damage items at all Thunderlord's Decree is better than Deathfire Touch .

My Garen has with Black Cleaver and Death's Dance a good amount of bonus AD, same goes for early with AD runes. So, welp.



Deathfire Touch + Phantom Dancer + Garen????????????????

How am I going to play with this massive ****ing erection in the way?
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NicknameMy
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BTW: Illaoi is by far the most broken champion ever released. Hits you with E -> 60 seconds no longer able to lane. Hits with R -> oneshots whole team.
Lugignaf
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NicknameMy wrote:
BTW: Illanoi is by far the most broken champion ever released. Hits you with E -> 60 seconds no longer able to lane. Hits with R -> oneshots whole team.


Or, you know, you could kill some of the tentacles. It's not like they auto-target you and you can't dodge their attacks. They're essentially skillshots that you know are gonna happen.

And as for the ult, just pick someone like Sivir or Janna for disengage. If the tentacles aren't around, she's not doing a whole lot, lo\l.


Thank you to jhoijhoi for the sig, and all the dividers in the guide.

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Up until now I only saw Illaoi being **** and pooped on :/

New poppy and her ult tho Knocked back for ages
Mooninites
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Illaoi did 1600+ dmaage to me in 1.96 seconds with just a Sterak's Gage and Long Sword 18 minutes into the game, so ya she looks pretty balanced
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Thalia Kael
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Lugignaf wrote:


Or, you know, you could kill some of the tentacles. It's not like they auto-target you and you can't dodge their attacks. They're essentially skillshots that you know are gonna happen.

And as for the ult, just pick someone like Sivir or Janna for disengage. If the tentacles aren't around, she's not doing a whole lot, lo\l.


Just dodge the spear
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Vapora Dark
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Just dodge the spear

just pink ward her tentacles lol

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