Current meta is broken, let's change things

[quote=example1013][quote=TheJohn] [quote=omagma] Lol wut? You clearly have no idea of what Xerath is capable of... [/quote] Never seen one that could do what you're talking about. I accept replays And whats the problem of having no jungler? Anyone can gank, and some champions are really great on it About the AD farming: why they simply kill enemies? You get gold from kills and the lane is free to farm [/quote] TL;DR version of what I was going to post. Duo top is too easy to counter. The two top fall behind in levels and have to split farm (unless you run two-support, which leaves you with two people who are essentially free kills, lacking items and damage). Some champs actually snowball harder early with level advantage regardless of farm (Olaf is a great example, dealing 300 true damage to a level 7 is borderline OP), and the lane is going to be constantly pushed with 2 people farming (unless you see above) which makes super-easy ganks for any jungler with a stun or snare (who'll be keeping up with the solo lanes in levels if he's competent). Bot is trade-offs on counters, but the basic idea of the current meta is to get 1 champ (the really item-dependent champ, i.e. a carry) just as farmed as the solo lanes, paired with a largely item-independent champ to help keep the carry in lane farming. The support's role is normally described as supporting the team and babysitting the carry, but just as important is the fact that the support is useful in teamfights without a single item, which allows everyone else to get what they need to win. Yeah certain non-meta comps can blank a surprised team. Hell, just sending 2 mid at the beginning pretty much guarantees the squishy ap mid giving up first blood simply because mids don't really know how to deal with a 2v1 and don't have the hp to make a mistake (at least early on). But if mid can't deal with it, you just either switch with someone who can or gank hard and often (as noted before, 2v1 lanes are always pushed). There are very specific situations where running counter to the meta is met with success, but those are few and far between, and they're hardly going to upset the meta, since there are often even soft-counters a team can make within the meta to deal with it. If you even want to talk about soft-counters just within a single lane, look at Duff's rune pages. His pages allow him to soft-counter almost any configuration regardless of champion just based on building different resistances and such, and they're effective enough that if you don't build a page specifically to match up with his, he will win lane with it.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=TheJohn] I've been analysing two things: why people lose and hows the meta going. The first one was really surprising. If you think that trolls and feeders are the main reason for so many loses, you're wrong. The losing team is always fighting, teammates are blaming the others, they lose focus and cant play normally Note: this isnt only about ranked, but blind pick and normal draft too. So dont come saying "you are wrong because you are ELO 666" Now about the meta. I played against many team that have jungler, solo top offtank, AP carry mid, support and AD carry bot, and against some that didnt follow this idea The thing is that the "meta teams" lost more than the others. Why? Simple, some champions have synergy, they work better together And if you get a "meta team" with synergy? You wont have more chance to win, counter picks have synergy too Another thing is that 2v1 top is awesome. They totally control the lane and kill the jungler every time he tries to gank because the bush is warded An offtank + carry or two offtanks bot pwn the support + AD carry. They are a lot stronger, and one CC, support down. The AD carry just hugs the tower The mid battle is odd. The champion that outrange the other or has a better harass has bigger chances. Cassiopeia is pretty strong, has a good range and poison. Xerath, Annie and Ryze cant lane against her. Morgana going mid? Send an AD Maybe I said things that arent true, or you dont agree, but thats how things happened for the last 2 weeks [/quote] First when i saw the title, i thought: Double junglers? Roamers? no jungler with 1 fast campclearer cycling between clearing the 1/2 jungle then rushing back to lane? Then i saw the author was John ;) John, ur obvious/stupid//plain wrong statements is always making me smile :p Let's have a look at what u're saying: Raging teams with no team-coordination looses, noo shit sherlock. Champions with synergy works better together than champions without synergy, noo shit sherlock. A "meta-team" with synergy has the same chance to win, a meta team(support/ad-carry bot) only has to win the lane by farming, since they're better at it. When it comes to mid-lategame the characters who are in need of farm has more farm, and can therefore deal more damage, so this is in the stupid department since it's not plain wrong just mildly wrong. 2v1 top is awesome sometimes, but it has to be a aggressive support-adcarry lane where their solotop will be annihilated, and then sending ur solo-top bot because he stands a better chance 2v1(and they don't have a aggressive support lane.) Having the extra exp from the jungle is needed for any team to really succeed through mid-lategame. Soo stupid, but unconventional lane setups can work, u just don't put it in nearly the right way. An offtank+ad-carry won't pwn a ad-carry support lane, they will be outsustained quite easily. sending 2 offtanks bot can be devastating. DAT leaona+jarvan :o, but if u're not winning ur lane with early kills, u gonna die after being outsustained by their soraka constantly healing and mana'ing their graves. So stupid comment but not plain wrong since an unconventional bot-lane can succeed. Obvius about the ap-carries although Annie and xerath can lane against a Cass and win quite easily since they both have a stun and stuns makes ganking mid quite easy with any gank char in the game. I'm sorry John, this time u were not able to enlighten anyone, but keep trying maybe 1 day u will actually have something useful/enlightening to say :)[/quote]

[quote=Shak3y][quote=example1013] [quote=TheJohn] [quote=omagma] Lol wut? You clearly have no idea of what Xerath is capable of... [/quote] Never seen one that could do what you're talking about. I accept replays And whats the problem of having no jungler? Anyone can gank, and some champions are really great on it About the AD farming: why they simply kill enemies? You get gold from kills and the lane is free to farm [/quote] TL;DR version of what I was going to post. Duo top is too easy to counter. The two top fall behind in levels and have to split farm (unless you run two-support, which leaves you with two people who are essentially free kills, lacking items and damage). Some champs actually snowball harder early with level advantage regardless of farm (Olaf is a great example, dealing 300 true damage to a level 7 is borderline OP), and the lane is going to be constantly pushed with 2 people farming (unless you see above) which makes super-easy ganks for any jungler with a stun or snare (who'll be keeping up with the solo lanes in levels if he's competent). Bot is trade-offs on counters, but the basic idea of the current meta is to get 1 champ (the really item-dependent champ, i.e. a carry) just as farmed as the solo lanes, paired with a largely item-independent champ to help keep the carry in lane farming. The support's role is normally described as supporting the team and babysitting the carry, but just as important is the fact that the support is useful in teamfights without a single item, which allows everyone else to get what they need to win. Yeah certain non-meta comps can blank a surprised team. Hell, just sending 2 mid at the beginning pretty much guarantees the squishy ap mid giving up first blood simply because mids don't really know how to deal with a 2v1 and don't have the hp to make a mistake (at least early on). But if mid can't deal with it, you just either switch with someone who can or gank hard and often (as noted before, 2v1 lanes are always pushed). There are very specific situations where running counter to the meta is met with success, but those are few and far between, and they're hardly going to upset the meta, since there are often even soft-counters a team can make within the meta to deal with it. If you even want to talk about soft-counters just within a single lane, look at Duff's rune pages. His pages allow him to soft-counter almost any configuration regardless of champion just based on building different resistances and such, and they're effective enough that if you don't build a page specifically to match up with his, he will win lane with it. [/quote] your TL;DR is too long lol[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]Double [[Will of the Ancients]] meta is best meta. WotA is super OP though. Riot doesn't realize this yet.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=Temzilla] Double [[Will of the Ancients]] meta is best meta. WotA is super OP though. Riot doesn't realize this yet. [/quote] Don't worry temz, in half a year when it's not op anymore they're gonna nerf the shit out of it.[/quote]

[quote=TheJohn][quote=example1013] (unless you run two-support, which leaves you with two people who are essentially free kills, lacking items and damage). Some champs actually snowball harder early with level advantage regardless of farm (Olaf is a great example, dealing 300 true damage to a level 7 is borderline OP), and the lane is going to be constantly pushed with 2 people farming (unless you see above) which makes super-easy ganks for any jungler with a stun or snare (who'll be keeping up with the solo lanes in levels if he's competent). [/quote] Thats a lie. Sona + Janna pwn, I've tryed it some times and always won If you say that Olaf has a OP damage lvl 7, how the gank will work? Another thing is that Olaf has his ult Bye guys, I'm quitting. Duff, I didnt find 2 beautiful girls, so I didnt PM you If I'm almost always wrong, theres no need to stay here among people that know almost everything about the game. Dont say that I shouldnt quit and I know a good part of the game, that doesnt work anymore[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=TheJohn] [quote=example1013] (unless you run two-support, which leaves you with two people who are essentially free kills, lacking items and damage). Some champs actually snowball harder early with level advantage regardless of farm (Olaf is a great example, dealing 300 true damage to a level 7 is borderline OP), and the lane is going to be constantly pushed with 2 people farming (unless you see above) which makes super-easy ganks for any jungler with a stun or snare (who'll be keeping up with the solo lanes in levels if he's competent). [/quote] Thats a lie. Sona + Janna pwn, I've tryed it some times and always won If you say that Olaf has a OP damage lvl 7, how the gank will work? Another thing is that Olaf has his ult Bye guys, I'm quitting. Duff, I didnt find 2 beautiful girls, so I didnt PM you [/quote] Sona+janna might once in a while win a lane, they just can't carry for shit and scales soo baad with farm. He was refferring to olaf as the solo-laner, he has an axe to last hit. U won't kill him in lane cuz great sustain. So he's not gonna need any ganks whatsoever when pushed to tower. Thus leaving 2 lanes(mid and bot) which are gonna get terrorized by their jungler! U really should quit.. Cuz u don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about :D[/quote]

[quote=TheJohn][quote=Pølsemanden] U really should quit.. Cuz u don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about :D [/quote] I was willing to hear that. You're the first one who had courage to say it, congrats[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]John honestly, just because people think you're wrong about something it doesn't mean they hate you and want you to leave. The moment I read the OP I knew it would end up with you threatening to leave again. I left a comment earlier, but I deleted it because I didn't want to upset you.[/quote]

[quote=Toshabi]The only true meta is metapod. Also, TheJohn feeling like everyone is against him just because they have a different opinion? Woah. That's new.[/quote]