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What do you think of MobaFire's Scouting System?
@bio his guide is already featured. there's no reason to +scout a high elo guide currently, it makes no difference.
i get yall no worries. like i said. doesn't really matter that much to me. and i really don't think it is the scouts themselves issues in any way. the system is just very ghost like with little structure or guidelines. **** i bet the majority of users of mobafire don't even know what scouting is.
i say good luck to the scouts and scouting system. :D k bye.
i say good luck to the scouts and scouting system. :D k bye.
ps. otg don't be hurt by what i said. i think you deserved the love you got for your guide.
Thanks to jhoijhoi for my signature!
I -scouted NateKiller's guide (I'm not the only one though, it was at +2/-4 when I did) and this is why:
In terms of the full picture OTG's guide is a lot better. He might not give as much information, but the cheat-sheet is a lot easier to access, doesn't have much random items for me to hate on and still doesn't lack any content.
- Masteries. I have played enough nasus to know that 0/21/9 > 0/18/12
- Summoners. Teleport is quite essential on nasus. I know he uses it in some of his other builds, but read on to the next point to learn more about that.
- Cheat sheet: It's a mess. No one is going to read through 4 different builds, you could rather make one standard build and give situational items
- zeke's herald and Warmog's Armor are sucky items. I really don't see why you'd ever get any of these.
- While the information given is great, it is a massive wall of text.
In terms of the full picture OTG's guide is a lot better. He might not give as much information, but the cheat-sheet is a lot easier to access, doesn't have much random items for me to hate on and still doesn't lack any content.
Vynertje wrote:
I -scouted NateKiller's guide (I'm not the only one though, it was at +2/-4 when I did) and this is why:
- Masteries. I have played enough nasus to know that 0/21/9 > 0/18/12
- Summoners. Teleport is quite essential on nasus. I know he uses it in some of his other builds, but read on to the next point to learn more about that.
- Cheat sheet: It's a mess. No one is going to read through 4 different builds, you could rather make one standard build and give situational items
- zeke's herald and Warmog's Armor are sucky items. I really don't see why you'd ever get any of these.
- While the information given is great, it is a massive wall of text.
I don't think Mog's is terrible in general, it fits a great deal of bruisers but I don't feel Nasus needs it at all as he has plenty of sustain through
Soul Eater and Siphoning Strike.
GrandmasterD wrote:
I don't think Mog's is terrible in general, it fits a great deal of bruisers but I don't feel Nasus needs it at all as he has plenty of sustain through
Soul Eater and Siphoning Strike.He gets a lot of HP from his ultimate, meaning resistances (or a combination of resistances and health like
Randuin's Omen) are more effective. The same applies to lifesteal, it becomes less effective if you get lots of health. There simply are better alternatives which is why one shouldn't get it.
SOAC Bas
<Member>
<Member>
Vynertje wrote:
I -scouted NateKiller's guide (I'm not the only one though, it was at +2/-4 when I did) and this is why:
- Masteries. I have played enough nasus to know that 0/21/9 > 0/18/12
- Summoners. Teleport is quite essential on nasus. I know he uses it in some of his other builds, but read on to the next point to learn more about that.
- Cheat sheet: It's a mess. No one is going to read through 4 different builds, you could rather make one standard build and give situational items
- zeke's herald and Warmog's Armor are sucky items. I really don't see why you'd ever get any of these.
- While the information given is great, it is a massive wall of text.
In terms of the full picture OTG's guide is a lot better. He might not give as much information, but the cheat-sheet is a lot easier to access, doesn't have much random items for me to hate on and still doesn't lack any content.
Let me help as to why the scouting system failed nate killer then based on this example.
1). Masteries - Did you explain why? Why is 18/12 worse for the nasus build than 0/21/9? You say you have played enough Nasus - fantastic did you try out the build and then make a decision. If not than you are basing your decision and a predetermination based on opinion rather than fact. No one knew why you rated it this way, and it seems you just made a blanket judgement based on how you feel. Essentially any build that isn't /21/9 would immediately be downgraded by you.
2). Teleport being essential is a matter of personal preference. Ghost/flash are jsut fine if your build allows you to move quickly to where you need to go to farm effectively. So again a personal preference took place over physical testing or any logical segway. You simply saw no teleport and decided he was wrong.
3). I read through 4 different builds all the time. I don't like ones that say here is a standard build, and then list 42 options. I prefer you listing 4-5 builds and when you use them. I can understand why you would look at it poorly as it's not your preference, but this doesn't mean it isn't good.
4). Zeke's Herald is ****, but did he explain why he liked it. Did you try it and verify that there is no reason for it to be in this build? Did you explain it to the guidewriter and did he get a chance to defend his opinion? I think Zeke's herald is awful, it's a money sink. I don't see warmog's as that bad especially with everyone getting botrk now. Is it optimal? No. Can it be used? I don't see why not. Should he have been faced with a hidden penalty without any way to appeal or see the reasons so he can attempt to explain? How is this considered fair?
5). This I agree a massive wall of text will do more to hinder a guides progress than promote it, but again did anyone make any attempt at letting the player know here is why your guide got downgraded.
Can you see why the system is severely flawed? It is not you or the scouts that are in the wrong as you have done what was asked of you. It's the system that's flawed. Since we can't really do anything to change it, we are voicing our displeasure in an effort that the scouts will attempt to bring about a change.
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Vynertje wrote:
He gets a lot of HP from his ultimate, meaning resistances (or a combination of resistances and health like
Randuin's Omen) are more effective. The same applies to lifesteal, it becomes less effective if you get lots of health. There simply are better alternatives which is why one shouldn't get it.Agreed. I actually only really get Warmog's on
Darius to provide sustain through health regeneration since I don't build damage items on him.
SOAC Bas wrote:
Let me help as to why the scouting system failed nate killer then based on this example.
1). Masteries - Did you explain why? Why is 18/12 worse for the nasus build than 0/21/9? You say you have played enough Nasus - fantastic did you try out the build and then make a decision. If not than you are basing your decision and a predetermination based on opinion rather than fact. No one knew why you rated it this way, and it seems you just made a blanket judgement based on how you feel. Essentially any build that isn't /21/9 would immediately be downgraded by you.
2). Teleport being essential is a matter of personal preference. Ghost/flash are jsut fine if your build allows you to move quickly to where you need to go to farm effectively. So again a personal preference took place over physical testing or any logical segway. You simply saw no teleport and decided he was wrong.
3). I read through 4 different builds all the time. I don't like ones that say here is a standard build, and then list 42 options. I prefer you listing 4-5 builds and when you use them. I can understand why you would look at it poorly as it's not your preference, but this doesn't mean it isn't good.
4). Zeke's Herald is ****, but did he explain why he liked it. Did you try it and verify that there is no reason for it to be in this build? Did you explain it to the guidewriter and did he get a chance to defend his opinion? I think Zeke's herald is awful, it's a money sink. I don't see warmog's as that bad especially with everyone getting botrk now. Is it optimal? No. Can it be used? I don't see why not. Should he have been faced with a hidden penalty without any way to appeal or see the reasons so he can attempt to explain? How is this considered fair?
5). This I agree a massive wall of text will do more to hinder a guides progress than promote it, but again did anyone make any attempt at letting the player know here is why your guide got downgraded.
Can you see why the system is severely flawed? It is not you or the scouts that are in the wrong as you have done what was asked of you. It's the system that's flawed. Since we can't really do anything to change it, we are voicing our displeasure in an effort that the scouts will attempt to bring about a change.
- There's no reason to pass on the 21 in defence because
Legendary Guardian
and
Tenacious
are godlike. Why pass on those just to get a bit of extra life steal? This guy just wants as much life steal as possible and let that cloud his judgment.
Personally I prefer 9/21/0 because I think the additional AD early-game does a lot. - You only take Ghost and Flash on Nasus to have something against Jarvan IV's Cataclysm as that ability can render you useless if you don't have Flash. Teleport definitely trumps Ignite and keep in mind that this is coming from someone who's a huge fan of Ignite on Nasus.
Teleport allows you to farm and gain more Siphoning Strike stacks and still have the ability to help your team; it simply scales better into late-game for Nasus.
- A bit of personal preference but the more accessible the information is, the more likely that people will actually read it. Ever since we authors have so much flexibility regarding cheat sheets there's really no reason to put multiple builds into it unless the champions differ.
- If something isn't optimal then you shouldn't do it, that's clear as crystal. Zeke's is terrible even as a support item and I do agree on the fact that Warmog's is far from optimal on Nasus. If you're looking for a sixth item, then GA is a much better pick.
(unless maybe you're against a full ad team and you're running out of armour items to buy)
but really this thread is going no where and will likely have no impact (which from what i remember is a common occurance with regards to the scout system). natekiller's nasus guide not being scouted while otg's is scouted is a perfect example of the scout system failure btw. diamond elo nasus player with a **** ton of insight into each and every way to play him against all possible opponents versus a well coded guide that provides a fraction of the insight.
Couldn't agree more. Sure, Natekiller has it's things that can improve, but when they do it is an absolute master guide. OTG also has its things to improve, but thats all based on his scheme and he is not going to change that because he loves it too much. This is the exact reason why there should be a special notification when a scout places a scout point so that the author actually knows instantly what his/her points of improvement are so that (s)he can instantly work on those points of improvement to make his guide a better guide. When everything is finished, he would be allowed to ask for a second opinion and if it is done succesfully, it will of course get a +scout.
Right now it is just, those who know go to the right review shops or just ask scouts personally for some reviewing, and they are likely to upscout because of bias.