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What do you think of MobaFire's Scouting System?
SOAC Bas
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The_Nameless_Bard wrote:
Does it occur to anyone that the reason it got more -scouts is perhaps because more scouts agreed with the points made against it in this thread or elsewhere rather than because he argued about the system?
it's not my -scout on there regardless, but I'm just curious.
I mean, you can decide this is some giant conspiracy if you want, but I highly doubt that's actually the case.
And the guide is still featured because it's "high elo" -6 scout points or not...at least that's what I'm seeing.
It literally doesn't matter if it has -6 scout points or +8 :P
Giant conspiracy and retaliation are not the same. A giant conspiracy would mean that a huge coverup is in place from Mowen on down. In this case it simply strikes me as peculiar that several scouts who made no effort to see his guide before suddenly decided to do it right as he is arguing about the scout system being flawed.
I am not saying that is what happened. I am simply pointing out that it sure looks and smells funny. In the end, this is the problem when it's not transparent as to who downvoted, and why it was downvoted.
Podcaster and producer of community driven content - sittingonacouch.com
The_Nameless_Bard wrote:
Does it occur to anyone that the reason it got more -scouts is perhaps because more scouts agreed with the points made against it in this thread or elsewhere rather than because he argued about the system?
I think people are -scouting it because of the cheatsheet, and like everyone is saying, not actually testing it out in a game to see if the items he chooses, the runes he uses, or the masteries he specs are actually viable. The content of the guide is superb.
Personally, I see my Nasus guide and his Nasus guide with the MOST -scouts in the history of -scouting, and just shake my head. His guide, especially, doesn't deserve all those -scouts.
The points made against it seem to forget he's explained his item choices, they're just slightly unusual, and probably need testing.
And these revenge -scouts just prove why scouting shouldn't be anonymous.
Maybe we need C2S?
And these revenge -scouts just prove why scouting shouldn't be anonymous.
Maybe we need C2S?
Basically MOBAFire.
jhoijhoi wrote:
I think people are -scouting it because of the cheatsheet, and like everyone is saying, not actually testing it out in a game to see if the items he chooses, the runes he uses, or the masteries he specs are actually viable. The content of the guide is superb.
- Some stuff doesn't have to be tested to see that it's suboptimal.
- I downscouted not only because I think the guide isn't well-written as it goes on forever and hardly really explains stuff properly. For example it mentions you can exchange Zeke's for FH but doesn't mention why he doesn't get FH in general.
I'm not saying that the author doesn't comprehend nasus nor that they don't provide a proper build but they do make some questionable choices which irks me. Before you are going to counteract with "but he mentions..." I want to say that I'm tired of authors "covering their ***es" by mentioning everything. No! You make a choice, you back it up and done! I'm just tired of the same ol' "I rush X but you can also rush Y and Z." Well obviously I can but what should I do and why?! Guides teach like studybooks do. They pick an approach and go with it.
On top of that, the guide is just not accessible to anyone. There's plenty of bbcoding, I'll give them that but it just goes on and on and on. These are the major reasons I downvoted ánd downscouted because I disagree with both its rating and the scout points.
SOAC Bas
<Member>
<Member>
GrandmasterD wrote:
- Some stuff doesn't have to be tested to see that it's suboptimal.
- I downscouted not only because I think the guide isn't well-written as it goes on forever and hardly really explains stuff properly. For example it mentions you can exchange Zeke's for FH but doesn't mention why he doesn't get FH in general.
I'm not saying that the author doesn't comprehend nasus nor that they don't provide a proper build but they do make some questionable choices which irks me. Before you are going to counteract with "but he mentions..." I want to say that I'm tired of authors "covering their ***es" by mentioning everything. No! You make a choice, you back it up and done! I'm just tired of the same ol' "I rush X but you can also rush Y and Z." Well obviously I can but what should I do and why?! Guides teach like studybooks do. They pick an approach and go with it.
On top of that, the guide is just not accessible to anyone. There's plenty of bbcoding, I'll give them that but it just goes on and on and on. These are the major reasons I downvoted ánd downscouted because I disagree with both its rating and the scout points.
This is why I like GrandmasterD. He properly explains his reasoning for disliking something. Even if he has not taken the time to test and see if it's good. He at least takes the time to clearly explain why he dislikes it.
Podcaster and producer of community driven content - sittingonacouch.com
Bas, there's hardly a coincidence between that or when you see a "bad guide"/"suboptimal guide" getting a plat+ player comment and downvote it, immediately getting followed by at least two more.
Also, as I've said elsewhere, people - specially scouts - should stop abusing the "suboptimal" argument, specially when it's champs they never played/played once or twice. Or worse, downvoting/-scouting because of stuff mentioned as situational. I mean - and re-using my analogy - I doubt a nice number of you would let a Warwick guide writer get away with speaking of Chalice of Harmony as a situational item versus champions like Dr. Mundo, at least until Darien did it.
Kinda reminds me of when Targon's nerfs came around, I mentioned Ancient Coin and how it evolved to a good item but apparantly my gold status was not good enough for dem plat+ players and their reasoning that clearly Spellthief's Edge was the best and only option.
tl;dr - everyone else is trash except ourselves and our friends.
Also, as I've said elsewhere, people - specially scouts - should stop abusing the "suboptimal" argument, specially when it's champs they never played/played once or twice. Or worse, downvoting/-scouting because of stuff mentioned as situational. I mean - and re-using my analogy - I doubt a nice number of you would let a
Warwick guide writer get away with speaking of Chalice of Harmony as a situational item versus champions like Dr. Mundo, at least until Darien did it.Kinda reminds me of when Targon's nerfs came around, I mentioned
Ancient Coin and how it evolved to a good item but apparantly my gold status was not good enough for dem plat+ players and their reasoning that clearly Spellthief's Edge was the best and only option.tl;dr - everyone else is trash except ourselves and our friends.
Thank you Byron for 2014's loudest laugh up till today
GrandmasterD wrote:
- Some stuff doesn't have to be tested to see that it's suboptimal.
- I downscouted not only because I think the guide isn't well-written as it goes on forever and hardly really explains stuff properly. For example it mentions you can exchange Zeke's for FH but doesn't mention why he doesn't get FH in general.
I'm not saying that the author doesn't comprehend nasus nor that they don't provide a proper build but they do make some questionable choices which irks me. Before you are going to counteract with "but he mentions..." I want to say that I'm tired of authors "covering their ***es" by mentioning everything. No! You make a choice, you back it up and done! I'm just tired of the same ol' "I rush X but you can also rush Y and Z." Well obviously I can but what should I do and why?! Guides teach like studybooks do. They pick an approach and go with it.
On top of that, the guide is just not accessible to anyone. There's plenty of bbcoding, I'll give them that but it just goes on and on and on. These are the major reasons I downvoted ánd downscouted because I disagree with both its rating and the scout points.
So wait a second, you hate... that I go in depth on how to play Nasus? Ok, but I really think new players and fans of Nasus appreciate it. So I'll disagree in that less is not more. I've also explained this guide in near perfect English. I'm not sure why you're hating on my writing.
The FH purchase is explained shortly in items, and also understood from my explanation about how much armor should be purchased. Additionally, I could add that it's too much gold into mana purchases, and will leave you even more susceptible to AP burst, but that's almost a given. Another cool thing about Zeke's is how much range is on the aura compared to FH. tl;dr - Zeke's is the balanced build, FH is the AD build.
Does this help?
My apologies to everyone for somehow making this thread about me defending my guide but this is the first chance I've had to do so.
SOAC Bas wrote:
Giant conspiracy and retaliation are not the same. A giant conspiracy would mean that a huge coverup is in place from Mowen on down. In this case it simply strikes me as peculiar that several scouts who made no effort to see his guide before suddenly decided to do it right as he is arguing about the scout system being flawed.
I am not saying that is what happened. I am simply pointing out that it sure looks and smells funny. In the end, this is the problem when it's not transparent as to who downvoted, and why it was downvoted.
I am not saying that is what happened. I am simply pointing out that it sure looks and smells funny. In the end, this is the problem when it's not transparent as to who downvoted, and why it was downvoted.
I meant that it's been implied for quite some time now (not necessarily here, just in general) that a lot of the mass -scouting is due to some group of scouts conspiring to take down guides by other users they dislike.
In this particular case, the -scouts literally made no difference. Which is ALSO a flaw in the system.
Which.........leads to a question I already asked: If a high elo person writes a guide that many scouts consider sub-optimal, how is it reasonable that that guide would then remain featured until which point it was +scouted, no matter how bad it is? This is a generic question.
@Jai 90% of people looking at a guide go by the cheatsheet, it's just the way it is. Multiple users chose to downvote my Soraka guide partially because they disliked the runes I had in the cheatsheet, despite knowing I had already listed the alternatives they suggested IN THE CONTENT OF MY GUIDE. They're allowed to do that. By using something that is largely not considered to be core, I am opening myself up to that...whether I like it or not. You don't get to use something that isn't what is generally considered optimal and then back it up by basically saying "you shouldn't be allowed to disagree with me because you haven't tried it".
it's not my -scout on there regardless, but I'm just curious.
I mean, you can decide this is some giant conspiracy if you want, but I highly doubt that's actually the case.
And the guide is still featured because it's "high elo" -6 scout points or not...at least that's what I'm seeing.
It literally doesn't matter if it has -6 scout points or +8 :P