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What do you think of MobaFire's Scouting System?
I don't get this;
"OR make sure it never gets Featured"
Does this mean that a SINGLE scout can make it so that a certain guide will never be given a chance to be featured? What if it improves or if that said scout has some sort of bias? I mean, considering Scouts are given complete anonimousness, it is possible.
I think the main thing I dislike about the Scout System is that it seems that the featured guides are always the same, almost as if they're chosen from a roster. I mean, don't get me wrong. For example; I personally love Khazem's Riven Guide, but I feel that it hardly ever leaves they featured section. Perhaps they could make it so that if a guide is in the feautured for a week, it can't be for the next. Something like that anyway.
"OR make sure it never gets Featured"
Does this mean that a SINGLE scout can make it so that a certain guide will never be given a chance to be featured? What if it improves or if that said scout has some sort of bias? I mean, considering Scouts are given complete anonimousness, it is possible.
I think the main thing I dislike about the Scout System is that it seems that the featured guides are always the same, almost as if they're chosen from a roster. I mean, don't get me wrong. For example; I personally love Khazem's Riven Guide, but I feel that it hardly ever leaves they featured section. Perhaps they could make it so that if a guide is in the feautured for a week, it can't be for the next. Something like that anyway.
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So, say the threshold for having a Featured guide is 4 +scout points. If 2 people -scout a guide, it has -2 scout points. This means that it needs 6 +scout points for it to get Featured. Does that make sense? At the moment, there are a very limited amount of active scouts. The chances of a bunch of scouts trying to over-throw a majority vote is unlikely.
If a guide improves, it is entirely up to the scouter to remove or give scout points. This means that if Xxx -scouts Yyy's guide, and Yyy updates the guide with improvements, it's up to Xxx to come back, reread the guide and remove the -scout, or give a +scout. The problem is, once a scout point is given, people are unlikely to change their opinion of the guide unless the author complies with requests to change the guide. But there's nothing stopping the scout from being wrong about the request in the first place AND there's nothing prompting the scout to check back on a guide and remove a -scout point that no longer applies.
Scout points are reset every season. Scout points do not currently have an "expiration" date, the way votes do. In every single way, scout points are super up/down votes.
The Featured guides are ordered by how recently they were edited and published. That means an author can just continuously republish the guide to ensure their guide is in the Featured box. I agree, a rotating roster would be a fair idea in order to give all Featured guides good exposure.
If a guide improves, it is entirely up to the scouter to remove or give scout points. This means that if Xxx -scouts Yyy's guide, and Yyy updates the guide with improvements, it's up to Xxx to come back, reread the guide and remove the -scout, or give a +scout. The problem is, once a scout point is given, people are unlikely to change their opinion of the guide unless the author complies with requests to change the guide. But there's nothing stopping the scout from being wrong about the request in the first place AND there's nothing prompting the scout to check back on a guide and remove a -scout point that no longer applies.
Scout points are reset every season. Scout points do not currently have an "expiration" date, the way votes do. In every single way, scout points are super up/down votes.
The Featured guides are ordered by how recently they were edited and published. That means an author can just continuously republish the guide to ensure their guide is in the Featured box. I agree, a rotating roster would be a fair idea in order to give all Featured guides good exposure.
Oh, that makes sense now. Yeah, perhaps it would be better if scout points also have an expiration date, since it's true that there's a scout can just not check back on the guide ever. If not a month, then maybe two. Maybe the scout should be separated from the rep+ system and should have some other factor in deciding who can become scouts. I'm not entirely sold on the high elo requirement though, as high elo does not necessarily mean a good scout.
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That's a good point; I believe one of the criteria for being able to feature guides on MobaFire should be elo. There should be other factors that come into play, such as potential for bias, whether the person will give detailed and useful feedback, and whether they have guides themselves.
In addition to scout expiration date, I believe that -scouting shouldn't exist without +scout points on the guide. For example, your Soraka guide. No one should be able to come around and -scout it; there was no danger in the first place of your guide being Featured without +scout points. I can understand a scout thinking, "This Soraka guide doesn't deserve to be featured, I'm going to counter the +scout here". I can't understand a scout thinking, "This guide doesn't deserve to be featured, I'm going to -scout to make it harder for the guide to ever get featured".
In addition to scout expiration date, I believe that -scouting shouldn't exist without +scout points on the guide. For example, your Soraka guide. No one should be able to come around and -scout it; there was no danger in the first place of your guide being Featured without +scout points. I can understand a scout thinking, "This Soraka guide doesn't deserve to be featured, I'm going to counter the +scout here". I can't understand a scout thinking, "This guide doesn't deserve to be featured, I'm going to -scout to make it harder for the guide to ever get featured".
In the sense of if the scout doesn't have guides, they'll be less biased towards -scouting guides of champions they did have guides of (potentially) and/or they'll have more time to deliver more constructive feedback as they don't have a guide to upkeep. Alternatively, if a scout has a guide, perhaps he/she can been seen to be a "pro" at that champion?
Either way, I was happy to scout another guide of a champion I have a guide for, but I can imagine if I didn't have a guide of that champion, I'd be more willing to scout a guide other than my own, if that makes sense?
I've never understood why scouts can scout guides that they have written their own guide about. It's like elections and politicians voting for themselves; they're not going to vote for the competition. Then again, perhaps I'm wrong. Everyone in the scout ranks scout guides with no bias at all, even if they have a guide for that champion.
Either way, I was happy to scout another guide of a champion I have a guide for, but I can imagine if I didn't have a guide of that champion, I'd be more willing to scout a guide other than my own, if that makes sense?
I've never understood why scouts can scout guides that they have written their own guide about. It's like elections and politicians voting for themselves; they're not going to vote for the competition. Then again, perhaps I'm wrong. Everyone in the scout ranks scout guides with no bias at all, even if they have a guide for that champion.
No you're right jhoi. I admit I am far more judgmental with guides on champions that I not only have guides for but also ones for champions I play in general. Like, I can judge a guide for Katarina simply on it's learning content because I have no real clue how to play her. But a Thresh guide? A champion I almost exclusively used for ranked in s3? I'm far more critical there.
Or the whole fiasco with our Nasus guides. it's human competitive nature, when you use something a lot and someone else writes something about it that doesn't match up to your way, you tend to immediately pass it off as wrong even when there's so many possibilities for each champion.
Also, and slightly off topic, I'm noticing a lot of scout reviews lately base their entire opinion about the cheat sheet of guides alone, OR the reviewer will claim something is missing (from the cheat sheet) that actually is in the guide, which they neglected to read. Can we stop that? Some times there is information within the guide that ties in heavily with the sheet. The guide should be judged by its content for learning as well as it's build or cheat sheet. These are guides, remember, not builds.
Katarina simply on it's learning content because I have no real clue how to play her. But a Thresh guide? A champion I almost exclusively used for ranked in s3? I'm far more critical there.Or the whole fiasco with our
Nasus guides. it's human competitive nature, when you use something a lot and someone else writes something about it that doesn't match up to your way, you tend to immediately pass it off as wrong even when there's so many possibilities for each champion.Also, and slightly off topic, I'm noticing a lot of scout reviews lately base their entire opinion about the cheat sheet of guides alone, OR the reviewer will claim something is missing (from the cheat sheet) that actually is in the guide, which they neglected to read. Can we stop that? Some times there is information within the guide that ties in heavily with the sheet. The guide should be judged by its content for learning as well as it's build or cheat sheet. These are guides, remember, not builds.
So why have I started this thread? First, let me ask you some questions:
> Do you know which guides have been scouted?
> Do you know why guides become featured?
> Do you know if your guide has -scout points?
> Do you know the consequences if your guide has -scout points?
> Lastly, do you know who has the power to scout your guides?
Today, we'll be going over these questions. Please contribute to the discussion if you have something to share. With this thread, I am attempting to give regular users the opportunity to level the "playing field" as it were, with regards to scouting and featuring guides. If you have reason to believe your guide has a +scout or -scout point, you may be interested in the following information.
> Do you know which guides have been scouted?
Only MobaFire users with the ranks Scout and above have access to the Scout private forums and the list of -scouted and +scouted guides. That means that your guide could be on that list, and you'll never know until you are Featured. Alternatively, your guide could be on that list, without a hope of ever being Featured, due to -scout points.
> Do you know why guides become featured?
If you have a Featured guide, it's quite likely you don't know why it is featured; or that would be the case, if it wasn't a fact that 74% of +scouted guides are made by users Scout and above (including Special Guest authors). In fact, only 3 guides out of 24 Featured guides are written by regular users; the other 21 Featured guides are written by Scouts, Vets and Special Guests. You can chalk this factor to a multitude of reasons, but primarily this: MobaFire users Scout and above have been here a long time, thus know how to write good guides. You could also say that MobaFire users Scout and above have been here a long time, thus have developed good friendship circles. But let's not make any hasty accusations. We still don't know why guides are Featured. Well, guides can be given +scout points for whatever reasons the scout decides. They are not required to leave feedback about their scout point, so I know just about as much as you do why the current guides are Featured as the cream of the crop of MobaFire.
> Do you know if your guide has -scout points?
If you are not a Scout, you do not know if your guide has -scout points. Scouts are not required to explain why they have given their points, not in the Scout forum, not in the Discussion tab of the guide they scouted, or even by PM. So if you have a -scout point on your guide, you will never know. There is no chance for you to approach the scouter and ask why they -scouted; you do not even know you have a -scout point. Out of the 78 currently scouted guides, 38 of them are -scouted, some with more than one -scout. 84% of those -scouted guides are written by authors who are not Scout or above (ie, regular users and editors who have no access to the private Scout forum). What does this mean? It means that unless you are one of the 3 authors who are Scout rank or above, you do not know if your guide has a -scout point.
> Do you know the consequences if your guide has -scout points?
Is a -scout point detrimental? To have a guide become Featured on MobaFire, you have to reach a certain threshold of +scout points. That means every single -scout point you get on your guide, increases the amount of +scout points you need to become Featured. But I reiterate: if you are not a Scout, you do not know if you even have a -scout point. Because it is unlikely that you know you have a -scout point, you will never have the chance to appeal that -scout point.
> Lastly, do you know who has the power to scout your guides?
Scouts have the power to Feature your guide on MobaFire OR make sure it never gets Featured. So who currently is scouting? Which MobaFire members are deciding whether your guide is worthy of Featured, or worthy of -scout points? The short answer is, anyone with enough +rep to get there. There are scouts who are unranked. There are scouts who only play on the PBE. There are scouts who are in Silver. There are people who have the scout power who do not even play League of Legends any more.
> BONUS QUESTION: So, do Scouts know who +/- scout guides?
No. Scouting is almost completely anonymous. The only time Scouting is involuntarily public is that when a scout scouts a guide, it will appear in their recent activity without a link to the guide they scouted, or whether they + or -scouted, thus often it is impossible to guess which guide they have scouted. Unless a scout tells you they have + or -scouted your guide, you will never know.
So why did I start this thread? I think that the Scout System is flawed. I think that Scouting activity should be public, so that regular users can appeal -scout points, or at least talk to the scout who has scouted their guide. I think that +rep is not an accurate measure of who should be a scout; I think that scouts should be high elo in order to Feature guides on MobaFire. Lastly, I think that there should be some sort of scouting criteria that ensures that each Featured guide is worthy of its Featured status.
Any other questions? Thoughts? Opinions? What do you think of MobaFire's Scouting System? Do you have any ideas of how the system could be changed to benefit all users of MobaFire, as opposed to the select few who have access to the private forum? Leave your comments below! (inb4 locked thread)
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I like the idea of not being able to -scout unless there are already +scout's on the guide.
I agree 100%, -Scouting a guide with 0 or less Scout points is just pointless, and if the person is Scout or higher it's even mean (since we can see which guides have how many Scout points).
As a guide author myself, I'd like to know if I've been given a scout point, but the person who gives it isn't really important.
if you are going to -scout, +scout, +vote, or -vote you should have a reason as to why so that the author can address your concerns and change as they feel appropriately. that is how guides improve. if the author and or reviewer are not mature enough to handle a mature discussion over the guide than they can GET OUT. lol
Currently the scouting system is the voting system behind the regular system. Personally I think the entire system should be overhauled. My suggestions:
The Scout system should no longer be a system that focuses on "fixing" top rated guides but should focus on which among those guides is the best written one.
Adding to what GrandmasterD said, the scout system must include author feedback. No exceptions. It's a design travesty that it's currently missing.
Er, perhaps that guide owner should also get a notification as well. It seems unfair if only Scouts and up are notified when they get + or - scout...
You shouldn't "scout" a champion you don't own. There is no logic behind a player approving a guide he has never tested nor could even look at it go that makes sense with that champ. We all know pro players rarely try anything outside of the box in games we can see. A simple blanket statement like this guide is bad because it wouldn't work for specific encounters is a bad way to do things. I play certain champs a specific way because they work better for me and the way that I play them. Does that mean that a guide I write or build is wrong? When it might be correct if you tried it out.
The only people who should have the power of scouting are players/members who have practical experience with a specific champ, and are willing to take the time to test it out. If you don't wish to test it out and then explain your findings than you shouldn't rank or scout that champ. It's not complicated it removes all sorts of confusion, and it removes players who feel they have some incredible ability to see something immediately in every champ regardless of their experience with it.
Sure, you can sort through the vast number of guides and dismiss them quickly. But what about several good guides? You can't... And that is the quality I think people expect. It should be more than just "another vote". It should be special and mean something.
Scouting is supposed to be the top rank and top notch of the system. So placing a vote with that much "power" into the hands of a player who has no interest in attempting to see if a solid guide works or not should not be involved in scouting that champ.
Simply based on the comments posted it almost seems that some of the current rank of scouts treat this privilege like it's a staff of pain they can bring down on guides they feel don't match their non-tested approval. We were asked what could be done to improve it, and it seems that some of the scouts feel it's beneath them to actually do some work in order to be able to make an educated opinion.