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What do you think of MobaFire's Scouting System?
Vynertje wrote:
He gets a lot of HP from his ultimate, meaning resistances (or a combination of resistances and health like
Randuin's Omen) are more effective. The same applies to lifesteal, it becomes less effective if you get lots of health. There simply are better alternatives which is why one shouldn't get it.I have the resistances already when the item is purchased. Your comment doesn't make sense.
Edit: How are you saying lifesteal gets worse with health? It has a base return on damage that has no bearing on how much health you have. In fact, you could say it gets better with health by allowing you to survive and lifesteal more health than before.
Wrt nasus drama, the easiest way to get scouted is to be butt buddies with scouts and vets. This works for downscouting too. (Apparently this isn't an issue cause last time I brought this up I was told that scouts and vets are all friends and they all know each other's builds work...)
hi embracing. yes i play ff14 now.
8D I'll keep helping with your coding, Nathan, if you like! Also, you may have picked up that your guide was +2/-4. Now it's +2/-6. Which technically makes it -4, needing +4 scout points to get it to neutral, and THEN +2 more scout points to get it to featured. To compare, my Nasus guide and your Nasus guide have the same number of -scout points.
Agreed. Yes, most scouts and vets are friends, hence the biased +/- scouting going on and why, like I outlined in the original post, an overwhelming majority of featured guides are written by scout and above, whereas an overwhelming minority of -scouted guides are written by scout and above.
astrolia wrote:
Wrt nasus drama, the easiest way to get scouted is to be butt buddies with scouts and vets. This works for downscouting too. (Apparently this isn't an issue cause last time I brought this up I was told that scouts and vets are all friends and they all know each other's builds work...)
Agreed. Yes, most scouts and vets are friends, hence the biased +/- scouting going on and why, like I outlined in the original post, an overwhelming majority of featured guides are written by scout and above, whereas an overwhelming minority of -scouted guides are written by scout and above.
Amount of games on a champion doesn't THAT much, really. Actually, I know a lot of people who have played a ton of games on a champ but that also makes them too stubborn to see that he has a couple of flaws in his guide (not saying this is the case, but just to put it in perspective)
Lol, don't group all vets/scouts together. I'll DV bad guides any day, no matter who it is.
We may be friends but I haven't seen very many sheep votes. When I see a nice regular member guide I'll be sure to tell you, but for most of them the content and quality is not there, while most long standing members know mobafire's quality standards therefore it'll be prone to have a better audience. Then again I barely vote on guides anyway, and I have really high standards when it comes to scouting guides.
We may be friends but I haven't seen very many sheep votes. When I see a nice regular member guide I'll be sure to tell you, but for most of them the content and quality is not there, while most long standing members know mobafire's quality standards therefore it'll be prone to have a better audience. Then again I barely vote on guides anyway, and I have really high standards when it comes to scouting guides.
Updating the OP with the gems I found throughout the last few pages. If you found something I missed that was just as profound, please notify me, and I'll add it in.
I like the idea of not being able to -scout unless there are already +scout's on the guide.
I agree 100%, -Scouting a guide with 0 or less Scout points is just pointless, and if the person is Scout or higher it's even mean (since we can see which guides have how many Scout points).
As a guide author myself, I'd like to know if I've been given a scout point, but the person who gives it isn't really important.
if you are going to -scout, +scout, +vote, or -vote you should have a reason as to why so that the author can address your concerns and change as they feel appropriately. that is how guides improve. if the author and or reviewer are not mature enough to handle a mature discussion over the guide than they can GET OUT. lol
Currently the scouting system is the voting system behind the regular system. Personally I think the entire system should be overhauled. My suggestions:
The Scout system should no longer be a system that focuses on "fixing" top rated guides but should focus on which among those guides is the best written one.
Adding to what GrandmasterD said, the scout system must include author feedback. No exceptions. It's a design travesty that it's currently missing.
Er, perhaps that guide owner should also get a notification as well. It seems unfair if only Scouts and up are notified when they get + or - scout...
You shouldn't "scout" a champion you don't own. There is no logic behind a player approving a guide he has never tested nor could even look at it go that makes sense with that champ. We all know pro players rarely try anything outside of the box in games we can see. A simple blanket statement like this guide is bad because it wouldn't work for specific encounters is a bad way to do things. I play certain champs a specific way because they work better for me and the way that I play them. Does that mean that a guide I write or build is wrong? When it might be correct if you tried it out.
The only people who should have the power of scouting are players/members who have practical experience with a specific champ, and are willing to take the time to test it out. If you don't wish to test it out and then explain your findings than you shouldn't rank or scout that champ. It's not complicated it removes all sorts of confusion, and it removes players who feel they have some incredible ability to see something immediately in every champ regardless of their experience with it.
Sure, you can sort through the vast number of guides and dismiss them quickly. But what about several good guides? You can't... And that is the quality I think people expect. It should be more than just "another vote". It should be special and mean something.
Scouting is supposed to be the top rank and top notch of the system. So placing a vote with that much "power" into the hands of a player who has no interest in attempting to see if a solid guide works or not should not be involved in scouting that champ.
Simply based on the comments posted it almost seems that some of the current rank of scouts treat this privilege like it's a staff of pain they can bring down on guides they feel don't match their non-tested approval. We were asked what could be done to improve it, and it seems that some of the scouts feel it's beneath them to actually do some work in order to be able to make an educated opinion.
Bio: ikr. I am but one person. I can only give 1+scout to counter all those -scouts.
astrolia wrote:
the easiest way to get scouted is to be butt buddies with scouts and vets. This works for downscouting too.
OTGBionicArm wrote:
I admit I am far more judgmental with guides on champions that I not only have guides for but also ones for champions I play in general. It's human competitive nature, when you use something a lot and someone else writes something about it that doesn't match up to your way, you tend to immediately pass it off as wrong even when there's so many possibilities for each champion.
-NA- Veng Lmfao wrote:
I like the idea of not being able to -scout unless there are already +scout's on the guide.
IceCreamy wrote:
I agree 100%, -Scouting a guide with 0 or less Scout points is just pointless, and if the person is Scout or higher it's even mean (since we can see which guides have how many Scout points).
Janitsu wrote:
As a guide author myself, I'd like to know if I've been given a scout point, but the person who gives it isn't really important.
Bioalchemist wrote:
if you are going to -scout, +scout, +vote, or -vote you should have a reason as to why so that the author can address your concerns and change as they feel appropriately. that is how guides improve. if the author and or reviewer are not mature enough to handle a mature discussion over the guide than they can GET OUT. lol
GrandmasterD wrote:
Currently the scouting system is the voting system behind the regular system. Personally I think the entire system should be overhauled. My suggestions:
- Any guide should have a minimum of 20-50 (exact number is irrelevant) votes or exist for a long period of time with at least 80% rating in order for it to be possible to get a scout point.
- Any guide should be updated according to the latest patch in order to get a scout point.
- A scout can only scout 1 guide per champion.
- Remove -scouting due to the previous suggestion.
- The guide with the most scout points becomes featured.
- Expired/Archived guides lose all given scout points. Same if the guide drops below 80% rating.
- Scout points should be given on the quality of guide, as in, how well it is written. Due to the higher rating scouts can assume the guide to contain correct content and only have to focus on the writing itself. This includes, but is not limited to, grammar, spelling, chapter order, amount of content and writing style.
The Scout system should no longer be a system that focuses on "fixing" top rated guides but should focus on which among those guides is the best written one.
NateKiller wrote:
Adding to what GrandmasterD said, the scout system must include author feedback. No exceptions. It's a design travesty that it's currently missing.
jamespongebob wrote:
Er, perhaps that guide owner should also get a notification as well. It seems unfair if only Scouts and up are notified when they get + or - scout...
SOAC Bas wrote:
You shouldn't "scout" a champion you don't own. There is no logic behind a player approving a guide he has never tested nor could even look at it go that makes sense with that champ. We all know pro players rarely try anything outside of the box in games we can see. A simple blanket statement like this guide is bad because it wouldn't work for specific encounters is a bad way to do things. I play certain champs a specific way because they work better for me and the way that I play them. Does that mean that a guide I write or build is wrong? When it might be correct if you tried it out.
SOAC Bas wrote:
The only people who should have the power of scouting are players/members who have practical experience with a specific champ, and are willing to take the time to test it out. If you don't wish to test it out and then explain your findings than you shouldn't rank or scout that champ. It's not complicated it removes all sorts of confusion, and it removes players who feel they have some incredible ability to see something immediately in every champ regardless of their experience with it.
NateKiller wrote:
Sure, you can sort through the vast number of guides and dismiss them quickly. But what about several good guides? You can't... And that is the quality I think people expect. It should be more than just "another vote". It should be special and mean something.
SOAC Bas wrote:
Scouting is supposed to be the top rank and top notch of the system. So placing a vote with that much "power" into the hands of a player who has no interest in attempting to see if a solid guide works or not should not be involved in scouting that champ.
SOAC Bas wrote:
Simply based on the comments posted it almost seems that some of the current rank of scouts treat this privilege like it's a staff of pain they can bring down on guides they feel don't match their non-tested approval. We were asked what could be done to improve it, and it seems that some of the scouts feel it's beneath them to actually do some work in order to be able to make an educated opinion.
Bio: ikr. I am but one person. I can only give 1+scout to counter all those -scouts.
SOAC Bas
<Member>
<Member>
jhoijhoi wrote:
8D I'll keep helping with your coding, Nathan, if you like! Also, you may have picked up that your guide was +2/-4. Now it's +2/-6. Which technically makes it -4, needing +4 scout points to get it to neutral, and THEN +2 more scout points to get it to featured. To compare, my Nasus guide and your Nasus guide have the same number of -scout points.
Okay so let me understand this correctly. Natekiller's guide was +2/-4 until he joined in the discussion about the scouting system being flawed, and argued his reasoning for his builds against some scouts. Now he is +2/-6? Nope, nothing fishy going on here. Definitely not any misuse of scouting privileges because a player has argued against it.
I would love to see the explanation behind the "sudden" appearance of two more negative points. It's probably just a coincidence, because there is no way two "scouts" saw the debate went over and purposefully gave a negative rating as retaliation. Definitely wouldn't happen.
I think we can safely assume that the scouting process is flawed and needs work. I really like GrandmasterD's suggestions though I believe a scout should test a build before it gets featured. However, if he wants to change a scouted guide to simply a process where several scouts look over the context, grammar and look, then give it a plus and if it reaches 75 percent scout votes it gets featured. I would be okay with that.
Podcaster and producer of community driven content - sittingonacouch.com
I -scouted NateKiller's guide (I'm not the only one though, it was at +2/-4 when I did) and this is why:
In terms of the full picture OTG's guide is a lot better. He might not give as much information, but the cheat-sheet is a lot easier to access, doesn't have much random items for me to hate on and still doesn't lack any content.
Wow, there's so much misinformation going on here I don't know where to start. I'll attempt it:
1+2 Masteries and Teleport: In no way is 21 better. What I attempt to do in my masteries is give Nasus the best chance to win the early game. If Nasus is successful in simply going even in the early game he has essentially won the game. In no way does 10% tenacity(after multiplication) help Nasus do this. Additionally, the other 2 points would hardly help either, depending on where you put them. There is no arguing that my mastery build gives a better lane phase for Nasus - IT DOES. You can say I'm trying to stack lifesteal all day and that's fine, but the point is to allow Nasus to survive, and it succeeds in doing so. What this allows you to do is take Flash instead of Teleport. The benefit of that is it allows you to maintain safety from ganks AND have sustain. Taking teleport is fine, but you just have to hope you can survive the ganks. What Dyrus attempted to do was combine this and run Teleport with Flash. While this is extremely safe in lane, it costs Nasus a HUGE amount of killing potential. In my opinion, this is not worth it in solo-q. Remember, Nasus is a target in high elo. He WILL get ganked pre-6 since this is often the only way Nasus can lose the lane. Having flash will save you from the massive snowball that can occur from these. Feel free to compare my farm levels to anyone that runs teleport and you'll find I'm right there with them. Finally, flash is of course hands down better in team fights. Having a Nasus flash and ghost on top of a carry is very difficult to defend against. I leave it up to you as to which to use based on what your facing, but I'll always offer the scenario for facing very hard lane pressure.
3.The cheat sheet is the simplest way it could be and allows for new players to have a distinct build to apply to their game. There is no guessing as to what should be purchased and combined. This is optimal for new players to Nasus. Your confusion doesn't make sense.
4. Zeke's and Warmogs...are bad? Let me explain something to you. Warmogs is hands down the BEST tank item in the game when applied to a build full of resists(which I have). You clearly didn't think this out very much.
Zeke's wasn't my first choice of items in that slot but due to the nerfs to spirit visage it is now optimal for Nasus. It has a good build path, and is currently the most efficient item in game. To say it's bad doesn't make sense at all. His high physical damage + buffs from spirit visage leave Nasus with almost 50% lifesteal when this item is used. Add this lifesteal to an armored tank and it becomes exceedingly hard to bring him down. Don't take my word for it, just try it and see.
5. There are some massive text walls I admit, and I'm currently working to resolve that with some coding. It should be fixed very soon.