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[quote=PsiGuard][quote=jhoijhoi] Nighthawk: So my Morgana guide is bad? My Warwick guide is bad? My Ashe guide is bad? My Vayne guide is bad? [/quote] Relax. He's not saying that. He's saying that aesthetic appeal which resembles the quality of your guides is often enough to convince people to upvote, even if the build sucks. He's not saying your guides suck. He's just using your aesthetics as an example.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Your Morg guide is good, although I don't play Morg so I wouldn't be able to say anything in regards to specific things regardless. I felt it was strong. Your Vayne guide is strong, although I do think there are better ways to build. The build you have listed is a pretty common build seen being used by the pro's and it does work rather well. The only real issue with the Vayne guide is skilling order, Silver bolts is far superior to be skilled first over tumble. I don't play Ashe at all, can't comment, but it seems strong. The Nasus guide's build is very strong. I didn't read the guide but you're always very in depth.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Luther3000] I love a cold Duff in the evening. [/quote] Well you're shit outta luck big boy. I'm best served hot.[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=jhoijhoi] Nighthawk: So my Morgana guide is bad? My Warwick guide is bad? My Ashe guide is bad? My Vayne guide is bad? [/quote] Since you asked, nope they're not bad, but Imo WW and Morg have some minimal flaws. Well morgana is just about player preference actually, WW on the other hands shows you played him lots but never mastered him. It's a good build for starters WW, that's all.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]I love how this has turned into "yell at each other for creative differences" time. Honestly, I hate a ton of the guides. That's the main reason I make my own. Of course, I only do them on underplayed champs like Maokai, Nasus, Karma, etc. I don't like pro guides, guides based off pro guides, and about 80% of the vet/mod guides. Whenever I offer my own brand of advice, from the person that plays support GP and carries, I obviously don't know enough about my champions and I end up getting counter-argumented by some person who's not even affiliated with the guide maker. Honestly, I've stopped making guides until I've nailed the exact build/skill order down so I can carry 80% of my games that I need to. Even then, people still find a minuscule way that it's terrible and it reaches under the top 10 and never sees upvotes ever again. Jhoi made her Nasus guide... recently. Less views, more votes. Why? It's conventional and "standard." She got requests to write a jungle section and asked to use my guide with full credit. I said yes even though I could have easily said no and get increased traffic to mine just by having the best jungle Nasus out there. Also, mine are made for solo queue. I don't plan for a coordinated team. I've gotten down votes for this. I roam solo because that's all I have the patience for. I play pre-made? Someone complains that I'm building wrong or I gank stupidly. Sure I've done this quite a few times but, people yell at me while I'm the jungler like I'm supposed to be three people controlling every lane at once. If you can't hold your own lane, that's your fault most of the time, not mine. Just so people aren't saying "you're just butthurt because you get troll votes a lot, hurr." No, I'm not. I have had about 5 down votes. That's over all my public guides. Other ones I've archived because they're not representative of my guide making/personal skill level right now. Overall, I have probably gotten 20 down votes. People just don't form opinions on my guides and nobody gives a chance to the builds. /ranting[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis]Honestly, Jhoi, you're one of the few people with great guides AND awesome explanations. Though I personally would change a few things (E.G. Warwick skilling W second), they're just niggles, really, and to be brutally honest it much more deserves the top guide spot than DEWO's guide, in my opinion. So much effort, and maths has been put into those guides - they're so good and informative for new players. I guess I'm taking the side of Duff and Luther in this argument. Most champions are built relatively similar anyway (as they said, a good example would be AD carries going Doran's > Boots > BF Sword > IE or BT > PD, though it's obviously best for Corki to build a Trinity and Manamune). However, it doesn't really take much common sense to realise "Corki's R has a 1.2 second cooldown, I'm sure that would be great with a Trinity Force!" without the top rated guide telling us that. There are a lot of guides on this site (top rated ones too) that are truly retarded and wouldn't ever, EVER see high elo play, I could name quite a few off the top of my head, though I wouldn't want to offend anybody. Pros will show us different ways to build champions that we didn't think of, usually, and though we will have the generic build orders down, Hotshot's guide, for example, showed me that ArP runes are viable on Nidalee. If you explain something for long enough, it will seem like the right thing to build (as a grim example, the Holocaust). Some of the highest rated, bad guides on this site, for example, to name no names, the top few Anivia guides all feature a Tear or an Archangel's Staff (some circumventing a Catalyst/RoA, which makes me want to cry), when it's a horrendous item on Anivia (and most casters) due to high mana costs and high CD spells making it a pain for her to stack. If I was to release an Anivia guide without a tear, it would, indeed, get downvotes, even though Tear of the Goddess is one of the worst items you could get on Anivia. The same has happened recently with my choice on my Riven guide to stack Doran's rather than getting a Wriggle's. Though this has been what Saintvicious has been doing on Lee Sin for a good while now, since there's almost no high rated guides like that, I got a few downvotes for those reasons, or Jhoi's Warwick guide getting downvoted quite a lot because of her choice to have Wriggle's, same with Saintvicious', for that matter, which is stupid, considering it's common knowledge that Saintvicious knows his stuff when it comes to jungling. Mobafire has become pretty stupid right now, there needs to be some way for pros, or very high elo players, to recommend guides so they stay at the top, or have weighted guide votes, E.G. one of their votes is equivalent to 5 normal votes or something a little less ridiculous. At the moment if your guide doesn't have roughly the same items as the top rated one, you receive downvotes in some way, shape or form - which pains me, since many of them are bad, and you can't experiment at all with items, they have to conform to the top rated guide to stay high. Edit: Oh god that paragraph spacing. Whatever, I won't bother fixing it.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]walls of text: the thread.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=Xenasis] I guess I'm taking the side of Duff and Luther in this argument. Most champions are built relatively similar anyway (as they said, a good example would be AD carries going Doran's > Boots > BF Sword > IE or BT > PD, though it's obviously best for Corki to build a Trinity and Manamune). [/quote] Yea... About that. I've seen Hybrid Xin almost win a 1v1 wit ha 2 level disadvantage. People don't have to be built one way, 100% of the time.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]Yeah Jhoi, I like your guides a lot, was just using it as an example. Like, your WW guide is the best on the site, and is exactly what I use. Just using your aesthetics as an example ^^[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime][quote=Xenasis] I guess I'm taking the side of Duff and Luther in this argument. Most champions are built relatively similar anyway (as they said, a good example would be AD carries going Doran's > Boots > BF Sword > IE or BT > PD, though it's obviously best for Corki to build a Trinity and Manamune). However, it doesn't really take much common sense to realise "Corki's R has a 1.2 second cooldown, I'm sure that would be great with a Trinity Force!" without the top rated guide telling us that. [/quote] But here's the thing. They're both viable functions for different reasons. Trinity/Manamune is physical caster skill spammer. I.E. is straight AD carry build. :P So it takes a player with a wealth of experience in playing the champions to point out the minor details in regards to a champion. Corki was previously one of my mains, and I always did the Manamune/Triforce build. However, the AD carry builds work nicely as well.[/quote]