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Vynertje's Support AMA and advice thread

Creator: Vynertje December 30, 2014 5:15am
Jovy
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obviously the NA-er would say that I mean uh vyn who's the best support rn?

thank you jhoijhoi for the signature <3
Vynertje
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Best supports are Tahm, Braum, Taric and Karma. They're too different to say any one is better than the other right now.
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tahm and Taric back in the mix? I thought they suffered too hard at the nerf bat?
Vynertje
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Tahm buffs made him a pretty good laner. You can either go Q-E-Q-W against Karma (the only poke-ish support that really is meta atm) to poke and sustain or Q-W-E-Q against melee matchups to outduel them with grasp, there are only a few matchups he cannot deal with. Taric is a **** tier laner but his teamfights are unparalleled.
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Yeah I played Taric recently and felt quite underwhelming in lane. His ult tho.
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Question, What is the most optimal marks to run as support? I'm just really confused as to what marks to run vs what and how they play out on laning phase/mid game/late game
Vynertje
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Dune0z wrote:
Question, What is the most optimal marks to run as support? I'm just really confused as to what marks to run vs what and how they play out on laning phase/mid game/late game


What champ?
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I'm bored so ere you have some more detailed things on supports right now and my thoughts on their state in the current meta:


Tahm Kench: maybe the most surprising pick, at the very least one of the more rare sights in my solo queue. He's extremely good against melee matchups that rely on locking someone down and have little to no poke. His all-in potential is enormous with Grasp of the Undying and the damage on Tongue Lash and Devour, while he also makes himself and his adc super hard to kill with Thick Skin/defensive use of Devour. He's very vulnerable to high poke lanes (he has little to survive those) but these lanes can be overcome through jungle ganks (only counter to Devour is to stay REALLY far back or jungle counterganks).

Braum: has always been a very solid support, has a very poor laning phase pre-6 and especially vulnerable to poke, but his level 6 all-ins and teamfights in general are extremely good due to an abundance of crowd control and defensive abilities. He also offers great gank support (he can also switch targets easily and doesn't rely as much on hitting a single skillshot). He's one of my favourite supports to pick blind, as he will always be useful come late and cannot be countered as hard by poke as i.e. Tahm Kench.

Thresh: not as good any more as he used to be. He's great in pick comps but his laning phase isn't as strong as it used to be (also matches up pretty poorly against Tahm Kench/ Braum) and he is generally much more squishy come late as well (compared to other tank supports). In other words, he's pretty much a support that can do everything but excels at nothing, which puts in him a weird state. He's by no means bad, but isn't a safe pick by any means.

Leona: one of the most matchup-reliant champions in the game. Pick her into a Janna/Thresh/Karma/Tahm and the lane will almost be impossible to win, but pick her into Soraka and you'll have a pretty good time. Another weakness is that she has no back button: if you get caught, go too deep or get counterganked you have no way of making it out alive. If I play her, I run thunderlords+ignite all the time as it amplifies her only niche: immense kill potential and CC.

Karma: still a good pick but heavily relies on laning phase to snowball the game. She doesn't nearly scale as well as i.e. Braum so you'll have to abuse lane. Her range combined with damage makes her an incredibly strong pick into low-range, low-sustain lanes; particularly those with low kill potential. The trick is to abuse level 1 hard (try to stay lvl 1 as long as possible, so don't overpush lane) and punish them with Q+AA. After lvl 5, you want to max e for the extra utility: damage on Q isn't nearly as important any more.

Sona: overnerfed to the stage where she isn't as strong in lane any more and her late game isn't good enough compared to tanky supports to make her worth it. Except for a power spike at level 6 (with ignite+q+power chord you have a sick amount of kill potential), there's a champion that performs better at any kind of gameplay (karma for poke, nami for sustain, braum for late game utility, soraka for late game sustain and utility).

Nami: she was really good shortly as she had the tools to deal with Sona/Karma, but now these are less prevalent she's also a bit weaker. Her main tools are a combination of poke and sustain which is only good against champions that trade back (i.e. those mentioned above). With the rise of melee supports, that sustain element isn't as strong any more which is why pro teams prefer Karma in all situations due to her higher damage and safer gameplay.

Lulu: Not great, she functions well against low-ranged lanes when you're playing with an attack-speed reliant ADC but she loses hard to poke (her poke is terrible now) and pre-6 all ins. You max E>W>Q and basically just try to make it past lane and then babysit your ADC 24/7.

Janna: pretty much a better version of Lulu in 90% of matchups, she has the same defensive and offensive tools but benefits from being much safer early game and being less punished by ranged champions (she can just stand back and shield her ADC and be useful, which Lulu cannot do as her shield isn't as strong). I think her main problem is that she's too passive early game but doesn't match up to a full tank like Braum in late game either, I don't expect her to come back until some assassins/hard engage teamcomps are being played again.

Soraka: very dangerous to blind pick, but one of the strongest champions if you get her on a good matchup. Your ADC can basically 1v2 until the enemy gets an early Executioner's Calling (which shuts her down pretty damn hard). Her silence is a super strong tool all game and if used correctly, can prevent all damage.

Morgana: in a meta where QSS is extremely good and often bought early as primary counter to hard-cc, Morgana has lost her touch. She doesn't match up well against poke (Karma), nor does she really have the tools dominate a lane against a full tank (except maybe Thresh). She doesn't scale as well into late game as full tanks with lots of CC do either. She's still a good support overall but just like Nami, there are just very few reasons to pick her at the moment.

Taric: one of the worst, if not the worst laning support out there, but has an incredibly strong late game. His ult is very strong, but also his extended-E's on mobile bruisers like Ekko or ghost users like Vladimir are immensely hard to deal with. If you can get him through laning phase (i.e. laning against a similarly passive lane like Braum), he's one of the best picks out there.
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So I take it stuff like Shen, Trundle, Brand and Sion support have stopped being used? Opinion on other "off-meta" or niche supports?
Vynertje
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So I take it stuff like Shen, Trundle, Brand and Sion support have stopped being used? Opinion on other "off-meta" or niche supports?


Trundle is still good; forgot to mention. The others are pretty much out indeed. Zyra is an odd pick but can work, her damage in lane is fine but she's quite weak later on and is very vulnerable to jungle ganks, zilean is okay-ish but without AP his spells are much weaker (also he's very vulnerable to both all-ins with hard CC and long range poke).

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