"I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m ****ing ******ed but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Apache†and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding." - Guuse
"uh, I identify as counterstrike and I find this globally offensive" - ???
"uh, I identify as counterstrike and I find this globally offensive" - ???
drastiK wrote:
just buy crit dmg runes, critical chance is easily obtained through items. add that with the armor reducing axe and you're golden
You're missing the point drastiK, his math is there to prove the point of which is better between crit chance, crit dmg, and ArPen. Crit dmg runes are right above wasted IP. ArPen and Crit chance give you vastly superior bang for your buck. The question was never "which one can you not get through items." The question was, "which of these makes my character stronger in the long run?"
Nah, I think he's right. Someone who just states something like that without knowing the facts should simply be ignored. It's not like he asked a question. If he did I'd answer.
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Henry Ford
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts
Quoted:
Is Armor Pen still > Crit Chance when you're playing with gangplank?
And is there an ok secondary rune for armor pen/crit chance?
Armor pen is definetly better unless you get Last Whisper. No matter who you play as.
I consider the secondary crit runes to be really ****py(there are no secondary armor pen runes). I'd recommend getting something primary instead.
Check the "Physical dmg" section in "Recommended runes" in my rune tips guide.
"I'm ebolakin. You can refer to me as Ebola-Chan." - Vurtax
"I also am Otherkin. Whenever autumn rolls around I can feel my kin-type slowly taking over my body. You must know, I identify as pumpkin. I can control it pretty good most of the time, but when September ends, I just cant hold it in anymore. Whenever Im outside I see my brothers and sisters being chopped into soup, coffee, donuts, cake, drinks, bread - ppl even cut human faces into their skin, making a mockery out of their noble appearance. When I see things like that I cant control my pumpkin urges anymore. My natural instincts kick in. I then sit down motionless, while getting bright orange." - Morgana L
"I also am Otherkin. Whenever autumn rolls around I can feel my kin-type slowly taking over my body. You must know, I identify as pumpkin. I can control it pretty good most of the time, but when September ends, I just cant hold it in anymore. Whenever Im outside I see my brothers and sisters being chopped into soup, coffee, donuts, cake, drinks, bread - ppl even cut human faces into their skin, making a mockery out of their noble appearance. When I see things like that I cant control my pumpkin urges anymore. My natural instincts kick in. I then sit down motionless, while getting bright orange." - Morgana L
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Offensive quints and marks at level one. I use an estimated standard AD.
Armor pen lvl1: 25armor pen, 0%crit, 52AD
20armor: 52 * (1-(0/100)) = 52
50armor: 52 * (1-(25/125)) = 41,6
Crit lvl1: 0armor pen, 13,95%crit and 52AD
20armor: (52 * 0,8605 + 52 * 2 * 0,1395) * (1-(20/120)) = 49,38
50armor: (52 * 0,8605 + 52 * 2 * 0,1395) * (1-(50/150)) = 39,5
AD lvl1: 0armor pen, 0%crit and 67,3AD
20armor: 67,3 * (1-(20/120)) = 56,08
50armor: 67,3 * (1-(50/150)) = 44,87
AD > armor pen > crit > crit dmg at lvl1.
AD is has a big advantage over everything else at level1, but it turns bad in lategame.
Generic mid game crit build.
CrC: 100AD, 36+14%CrC, 0ArP.
50armor: (100 * 0,5 + 100 * 2 * 0,5) * (1 - 50/150) = 100 average dmg
100armor: (100 * 0,5 + 100 * 2 * 0,5) * (1 - 100/200) = 75 average dmg
ArP: 100AD, 36%CrC, 0+25ArP
50armor: (100 * 0,64 + 100 * 2 * 0,36) * (1 - 25/125) = 108,8 average dmg
100armor: (100 * 0,64 + 100 * 2 * 0,36) * (1 - 75/175) = 77,71 average dmg
No crit, high AD and Last Whisper. Offensive marks and quints.
ArP: 40%|6+25ArP and 280AD
100armor: 280 * (1 - 41,4/141,4) = 197,96
200armor: 280 * (1 - 101,4/201,4) = 139,02
AD/lvl: 40%|6ArP and 280+35,37AD
100armor: 315,37 * (1 - 56,4/156,4) = 201,65
200armor: 315,37 * (1 - 116,4/216,4) = 145,7
Low crit and moderate AD. Offensive marks and quints. (stats taken from my Olaf build example)
Armor pen: 45armor pen, 20%crit and 214,3AD
50armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(5/105)) = 244,95
100armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(55/155)) = 160,87
200armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(155/255)) = 100,81
Crit: 20armor pen, 33,95%crit and 214,3AD
50armor: (214,3 * 0,6605 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,3395) * (1-(30/130)) = 220,75
100armor: (214,3 * 0,6605 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,3395) * (1-(80/180)) = 159,48
200armor: (214,3 * 0,6605 + 214,3 * 2 * 0,3395) * (1-(180/280)) = 102,48
Crit dmg: 20armor pen, 20%crit, 233,45%crit dmg and 214,3AD
50armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2,3345 * 0,2) * (1-(30/130)) = 208,78
100armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2,3345 * 0,2) * (1-(80/180)) = 150,83
200armor: (214,3 * 0,8 + 214,3 * 2,3345 * 0,2) * (1-(180/280)) = 96,92
AD: 20armor pen, 20%crit and 229,6AD
50armor: (229,6 * 0,8 + 229,6 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(30/130)) = 211,88
100armor: (229,6 * 0,8 + 229,6 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(80/180)) = 153,07
200armor: (229,6 * 0,8 + 229,6 * 2 * 0,2) * (1-(180/280)) = 98,36
Armor pen > crit > AD > crit dmg with low crit and moderate dmg.
(forgot to add all masteries here, will do so when I feel like it. The stats won't change much but it may make a difference)
High crit, crit dmg and moderate AD. Offensive marks. (stats taken from my Ashe build example)
With Last Whisper:
Armor pen: 15|40%armor pen, 70%crit, 260%crit dmg and 237,164AD
50armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(21/121)) = 415,8
100armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(51/151)) = 333
200armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(111/211)) = 238,32
Crit: 0|40%armor pen, 78,37%crit, 260%crit dmg and 237,164AD
50armor: (237,164 * 0,2163 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7837) * (1-(30/130)) = 411,07
100armor: (237,164 * 0,2163 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7837) * (1-(60/160)) = 334,09
200armor: (237,164 * 0,2163 + 237,164 * 2,6 * 0,7837) * (1-(120/220)) = 245,9
Crit dmg: 0|40%armor pen, 70%crit, 280,07%crit dmg and 237,164AD
50armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,8007 * 0,7) * (1-(30/130)) = 412,27
100armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,8007 * 0,7) * (1-(60/160)) = 335,07
200armor: (237,164 * 0,3 + 237,164 * 2,8007 * 0,7) * (1-(120/220)) = 246,61
AD: 0|40%armor pen, 70%crit, 260%crit dmg and 245,714AD
50armor: (245,714 * 0,3 + 245,714 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(30/130)) = 400,58
100armor: (245,714 * 0,3 + 245,714 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(60/160)) = 325,57
200armor: (245,714 * 0,3 + 245,714 * 2,6 * 0,7) * (1-(120/220)) = 236,78
Crit dmg > crit > armor pen > AD with high crit and Last Whisper.
With Youmuu's Ghostblade:
Armor pen: 35armor pen, 85%crit, 260%crit dmg and 257,164AD
50armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(15/115)) = 528
100armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(65/165)) = 367,8
200armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(165/265)) = 229,41
Crit: 20armor pen, 93,37%crit, 260%crit dmg and 257,164AD
50armor: (257,164 * 0,0663 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,9337) * (1-(30/130)) = 493,2
100armor: (257,164 * 0,0663 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,9337) * (1-(80/180)) = 356,3
200armor: (257,164 * 0,0663 + 257,164 * 2,6 * 0,9337) * (1-(180/280)) = 228,96
Crit dmg: 20armor pen, 85%crit, 280,07%crit dmg and 257,164AD
50armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,8007 * 0,85) * (1-(30/130)) = 500,45
100armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,8007 * 0,85) * (1-(80/180)) = 361,54
200armor: (257,164 * 0,15 + 257,164 * 2,8007 * 0,85) * (1-(180/280)) = 232,33
AD: 20armor pen, 85%crit, 260%crit dmg and 265,714AD
50armor: (265,714 * 0,15 + 265,714 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(30/130)) = 482,23
100armor: (265,714 * 0,15 + 265,714 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(80/180)) = 348,38
200armor: (265,714 * 0,15 + 265,714 * 2,6 * 0,85) * (1-(180/280)) = 223,87
Armor pen > crit dmg > crit > AD with high crit.
At about 170armor crit dmg deals more dmg than armor pen.
No crit, high damage and Last Whisper. (stats taken from my Ezreal build)
Armor pen: 21|40%armor pen and 279AD
50armor: 279 * (1-(17,4/117,4)) = 237,7
100armor: 279 * (1-(47,4/147,4)) = 189,16
200armor: 279 * (1-(107,4/207,4)) = 134,53
AD: 6|40%armor pen and 287,55AD
50armor: 287,55 * (1-(26,4/126,4)) = 227,48
100armor: 287,55 * (1-(56,4/156,4)) = 183,86
200armor: 287,55 * (1-(116,4/216,4)) = 132,88
Conclusion: Crit dmg is completely useless at level1 without crit boosting abilities. Even then it's worse than armor pen. If you get Last Whisper crit dmg will be a small bit better than armor pen, but only on ~90armor and up.
AD is best at level1, but worst in lategame. Even with Last Whisper AD is worse than armor pen.
AD per lvl is better than armor pen with Last Whisper, but there's not a big difference and armor pen will outshine AD/lvl by a big margin before Last Whisper.
If you wanna maximize your lvl1 damage you should get 11-15 total armor pen and put AD in the rest of your mark and quint slots. Get the armor pen runes in marks, flat AD gives a bigger bonus in quints.
Armor pen is second best at level1 and best in almost all cases in lategame.
I'm planning on making graphs for the calculations. I don't know when I'll have time to do them.
I will make graphs for AP vs magic pen too, so I'll probably start another thread for all the graphs.