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Dumb scaling is dumb. (Or; why dont ability...

Creator: Opaque_Shadow
June 2, 2012 10:27pm
49 posts page 1 of 5 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » Dumb scaling is dumb. (Or; why dont ability scales make sense?)
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Opaque_Shadow » June 2, 2012 10:27pm | Report
So here's the thing, I have seen countless abilities that scale off of some of he stupidest possible stats. Now when I say this, I don't mean that somethings scaling off of flat AD and some off of bonus AD is dumb. What I am talking about is the presence of stats that make no sense with the champ they are on.

For instance, take Rammus's Q: Powerball - this abilty scales off of AP, which is dumb. there is no reason whatsoever for Rammus to want any AP in the game, so why does this Armor based champ have an AP scaling ability power and not armor or hell even attack damage (which technically would be the same as slight armor scaling due to his passive)? I mean I understand that his purpose isn't to do massive, leet damage, but still many champs have this issue ( Ashe's ult scales on AP -,-) and I would like to know why RIOT allows this to basically hinder their champs potential, just a thought.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by TheWeekndOVOXO » June 2, 2012 10:30pm | Report
In my humble opinion, the purest and simplest reasoning behind this is balancing.

Then again, I would like to see the other people's opinions.

Edit: Great read by others. I forgot to mention that they are old champions. Good point Lug.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by OTGBionicArm » June 2, 2012 10:37pm | Report
If Rammus's Powerball ran off armor he's be broken, same goes for if Enchanted Crystal Arrow ran off AD. I agree with TheWeekendOVOXO
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Opaque_Shadow » June 2, 2012 10:47pm | Report
But here's the thing, how does that possibly help balance? I understand i prevent champs like Rammus from having huge damage from abilities that aren't meant to really do damage.

But couldn't this be better mitigated by having very poor/low scaling with more sensible things. I mean overall that would improve self synergy of the champ, dont get my wrong I understand that champs like Kog'Maw are meant to be flexible with what they do, but champs like Rammus or Ashe who have these blatantly out of place scalings seems just dumb to me.

I mean for high ELO players it probably wouldn't change overly much, but for many new guys (not me) it actually encourages incorrectly building a champion some cases (I have seen an AP Rammus... you cannot imagine how hard my face met my desk)

Edit since I just saw Bionic's post after I posted: Enchanted Crystal Arrow could easily have a miniscule AD scaling with virtually no change, I understand it isn't supposed to be a huge damage ult, but I still would make more sense.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by DuffTime » June 2, 2012 10:58pm | Report
Rammus's AP ratios are excellent. There's no reason he can't build a Rylai's or an RoA in his build and get some damage in there as well.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by OTGBionicArm » June 2, 2012 11:10pm | Report
Yea, adds more diversity to viable item choices as well, another good point.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Lugignaf » June 2, 2012 11:31pm | Report
It's because they're old champions.

People simply scaled off AP back then because it was ability power.

We see champions today scaling off of AD because, it simply makes sense for them to.

Compare Graves to MF. MF's ult and Make it Rain both scale off of AP.(although her ult scales off AD as well, that's a different matter entirely)

Graves has right clicking as a back-burner item and uses his skills to set do most of the damage in lane and in fights. MF however, uses her Make it Rain, along with her passive, to close the gap or keep people close to continue to right click. She doesn't need to use her skills to be effective.

TL;DR
Champs today use skills to do damage instead of primarily utility. That's why older champs have strange ratios.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by OTGBionicArm » June 2, 2012 11:35pm | Report
^agreed. Many older champions are also much simpler by design.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by PsiGuard » June 3, 2012 12:03am | Report
DuffTime wrote:

Rammus's AP ratios are excellent. There's no reason he can't build a Rylai's or an RoA in his build and get some damage in there as well.

Lol, this^

It actually annoys me a bit when some of the newer AD champions (ranged and melee) have no AP scaling to speak of. I love it when champions like Panth and Nocturne have one ability that scales with AP. It makes any extra AP you get (Lulu, WotA, Baron, Sheen) actually useful.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by DuffTime » June 3, 2012 12:10am | Report
I have actually been a Rylais on Rammus advocate for over a year now. One of my original guides was a Rammus guide with Rylai's in it, probably about a year ago.

The exact date the guide released was, "May 20, 2011."

So yes, over a year ago I was saying to build Rylai's on Rammus, and I'm still saying it today.
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