On hit Stat shredding build idea

[quote=Tuxedo Vaile](EDITED TO BETTER EXPLAIN MY THINKING AND REPLACE ITEM ICONS WITH ACTUAL LINKS) So I'm just a scrub of a player so I have no clue how viable this actually might be or not so I'm hoping some people with more experience might have some more insight into how effective this build might be and who it might be most effective on. I came up for the build for use on [[Teemo]] but perhaps there are others who can wield it even better. _________________________________ [u]As a full build it would look something like this:[/u] [[Runaan's Hurricane]] [[Black Cleaver]] [[Wit's End]] [[Frozen Mallet]] [[Guinsoo's Rageblade]] [[Berserker's Greaves]] The idea is that you will be shredding the defensive stats of the enemy team in a team fight allowing your allies to get out even more damage than what they might have otherwise been able to. Between the [[Black cleaver]] and the [[Frozen Mallet]] you'll be picking up a sizable chunk of health allowing you to survive just slightly better than you would without and the [[Frozen Mallet]] will also allow you to kite a lot better. During a team fight the [[Frozen Mallet]] combined with the [[Runaan's Hurricane]] will also allow you to deny the enemy team the ability to disengage or re-position efficiently making it even easier for your team to pick them off. [[Guinsoo's Rageblade]] mixed with the [[Runaan's Hurricane]] is mostly intended to hasten the stat shredding of the [[Black Cleaver]] and [[Wit's End]] using the [[Guinsoo's Rage]] passive. _________________________________ The concept and objective of this build is the completely devastate the enemy teams defenses and movement during a team fight to allow your team to gain a superior positioning and damage output advantage. In theory I think it sounds quite feasible but I am a little bronzie scrub so perhaps this build is actually garbage. What do you more well rounded and knowledgeable players think though? Is this a viable build? If it is, is there a champion who might be able to wield it better than Teemo? What changed could be made to make the build even more effective? I look forward to hearing your thoughts about this. :D[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]Lmao, those are some huge icons. Most of this is actually standard build on [[Kog'Maw]], but [[The Black Cleaver]] doesn't fit with the rest of the build very well because you're building and dealing mixed damage. Cleaver works better on champions that are going to be dealing almost entirely physical damage. If you drop the [[Frozen Mallet]] as well, that build could work on Kayle too. Another on-hit build (though with less dmg) is [[Enchantment: Bloodrazor]] into [[Wit's End]] on [[Warwick]] jungle.[/quote]

[quote=Tuxedo Vaile][quote=PsiGuard]Lmao, those are some huge icons. Most of this is actually standard build on [[Kog'Maw]], but [[The Black Cleaver]] doesn't fit with the rest of the build very well because you're building and dealing mixed damage. Cleaver works better on champions that are going to be dealing almost entirely physical damage. If you drop the [[Frozen Mallet]] as well, that build could work on Kayle too. Another on-hit build (though with less dmg) is [[Enchantment: Bloodrazor]] into [[Wit's End]] on [[Warwick]] jungle.[/quote] Yeah, I'm not sure what happened to those icons, they were just fine when I hit preview... lol Anyways, this might be a mistake but I wasn't thinking of this build from the standpoint of "how much damage can I deal" but rather "how much damage can I allow my entire team to deal". Perhaps that was my first mistake in thinking up this build though. I've never really played Kogmaw though and I don't see him too much so I had no clue that this was almost his standard build. Since you said that though I'm thinking that I might actually enjoy playing him. XD Thank you for your response though and in your opinion if you had a team that you could count on in a team fight do you think that this build could achieve my intent with it OR is the concept not all that great even with a reliable team?[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0][quote=Tuxedo Vaile][quote=PsiGuard]Lmao, those are some huge icons. Most of this is actually standard build on [[Kog'Maw]], but [[The Black Cleaver]] doesn't fit with the rest of the build very well because you're building and dealing mixed damage. Cleaver works better on champions that are going to be dealing almost entirely physical damage. If you drop the [[Frozen Mallet]] as well, that build could work on Kayle too. Another on-hit build (though with less dmg) is [[Enchantment: Bloodrazor]] into [[Wit's End]] on [[Warwick]] jungle.[/quote] Yeah, I'm not sure what happened to those icons, they were just fine when I hit preview... lol Anyways, this might be a mistake but I wasn't thinking of this build from the standpoint of "how much damage can I deal" but rather "how much damage can I allow my entire team to deal". Perhaps that was my first mistake in thinking up this build though. I've never really played Kogmaw though and I don't see him too much so I had no clue that this was almost his standard build. Since you said that though I'm thinking that I might actually enjoy playing him. XD Thank you for your response though and in your opinion if you had a team that you could count on in a team fight do you think that this build could achieve my intent with it OR is the concept not all that great even with a reliable team?[/quote] Uhhhhh well if you've never played Kog'Maw before play him and that will provide you with a humorous answer to your question. The answer being, that because it's a fairly normal Kog build once you have Guinsoo's Runaan's and Wits end you will still be killing the enemies you hit in like 4 seconds. I guess if you rush the items that provide utility like Wits End you will be helping your team, but that isn't really a completed build.[/quote]

[quote=Ekki]If you build a full shredder build you will be dealing a lot of damage, whether you like it or not. The main source of damage you will be amplifying would be your own damage. Most viable shredder builds have either [[the black cleaver]] or [[wit's end]] into mostly fulltank items, to allow the shred to stay even if the enemy focuses you. Also most of the champions that run into these builds have some way to exploit the shred ([[darius]] can apply [[the black cleaver]] stats really easily with his passive, [[warwick]] has a really strong attack speed steroid for [[wit's end]]) and [[the black cleaver]] in particular is quite niche since the % armor shred is only really useful if the enemy has a couple of tanks. That said, even if it's subpar you can have fun with the build, especially if you use one of the many item-agnostic champions ([[kayle]], [[teemo]], [[fizz]]) or any of the ranged on-hit abusers ([[kog'maw]], [[ashe]]). Melee on-hit abusers need to be tanky in order to be useful shredders. [spoiler=my kog'maw build + recommended shredder build]My personal [[kog'maw]] build is as follows: [list] [*]1° [[blade of the ruined king]] [*]2°+3° [[guinsoo's rageblade]]+[[mercury's treads]]/[[boots of swiftness]] [*]4° [[sterak's gage]] [*]5° [[runaan's hurricane]] [*]6° [[guardian angel]]/[[frozen mallet]]/[[mercurial scimitar]] [/list] *Items separated with bars are options while items separated with a plus sign are bought in varying order depending on the game. Boots go between starting item number 2 and finishing it. Notice the lack of armor/mr shredding, all because I prioritised damage and survivability. Now if you allow me to recommend you a "shredder" [[kog'maw]] build I would do it like this: [list] [*]1° [[guinsoo's rageblade]] [*]2°+3° [[runaan's hurricane]]+[[mercury's treads]]/[[boots of swiftness]] [*]4°+5° [[wit's end]]+[[the black cleaver]] [*]6° [[frozen mallet]] [/list] I guess you should add more survivability, so I would change [[guinsoo's rageblade]] by a [[sterak's gage]] or [[blade of the ruined king]]. You can't have everything you want in every build pal. [/spoiler][/quote]

[quote=Tuxedo Vaile]Well so far I'm gathering that it's not a terrible build at least which makes me a bit happy to hear. I really appreciate everyone's input on this so far. Thank you! :D[/quote]

[quote=Ekki]To be honest a "full shredder" build isn't exactly a good idea though, at least not with the items LoL currently has. You can make a playable build for a champion like [[kog'maw]] because both the cleaver and wit's end can abuse his insane attack speed, but we're stretching the meaning of "playable" a bit.[/quote]

[quote=Schadenfriend]Kayle is by far the best one for this build, since her passive [[Holy Fervor]] is a source of shred and she can still be very useful to her team when sacrificing damage items like [[Nashor's Tooth]], etc. Swap out the [[Frozen Mallet]] for a [[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]], because it applies to the primary target and targets in her AA splash range. As a former Kayle main I really hate her build path now, it feels like no matter which combination of items you build you're squandering her potential ([[Rylai's Crystal Scepter]] + [[Athene's Unholy Grail]] supportive style feels weak, [[Nashor's Tooth]] + Deathcap doesn't have enough attack speed, full on-hit is in a strange place since the Rageblade changes). Maybe I should head over to /r/KayleMains and see what's new. But yeah, Black Cleaver would take the place of Nashor's, and you would lose a LOT of damage in exchange for a lot of AOE armor shred. Is it worth? In solo queue, probably no, because you need to be an island. But by all means, try it out and report back here![/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]And [[kayle]] gets more and more popular atm, with a similar build. http://champion.gg/champion/Kayle[/quote]

[quote=Tuxedo Vaile][quote=NicknameMy]And [[kayle]] gets more and more popular atm, with a similar build. http://champion.gg/champion/Kayle[/quote] I think that based on what everyone keeps saying about her that she'll become my pocket pick toplane if I lose out on Teemo. Thanks again for all of the input! :D[/quote]