Not sure whether you're asking just as a joke because of the inhouse game we played recently or whether you're genuinely interested, but here it goes:
First off, I want to emphasize that a good
Darius should win the matchup. However, since going into a lane with the "I will lose 100%" mindset simply isn't going to cut it, I suppose I'll share my thoughts going into that game.
Most importantly, set your priorities straight. In this lane, your main objective is to survive. Falling behind in cs a bit is ok (as long as you don't completely get zoned from the XP, which should only be the case if you get camped or have poor wave control), dying is not. Because of this, the general pointers I'd give an Irelia player are:
1. Play passive. Don't push for a level 2 advantage and try to chunk him, because his passive damage and Ignite (if he uses that, like the Darius I faced did) will probably cause him to win even despite that advantage. It will also make it harder to control the minion wave properly, which is extremely important (will get back to that). Don't initiate trades after that unless your jungler is coming to gank, you have a minion to Q back to (after going in with Q on a low HP minion that is near him, then stunning him and auto attacking once or twice) OR you've survived long enough (~level 9) for your priorities to change.
2. Build health. You can tell from the build tab in the match history that I got 2x Doran's Blade, Cloth Armor and Ruby Crystal (for Phage) early, and I even went as far as to get a Giant's Belt before building Sheen / completing Trinity Force. That last move may not have been strictly necessary, but I did it because I wanted to avoid falling behind by dying to his burst. Getting Sheen much sooner in an attempt to outburst him is only a good idea if you're doing really well (in my case I was slightly ahead in cs for most of the lane, but unfortunately didn't get the ganks to build a bigger lead).
3. Wave control is your biggest friend. In this game, Darius auto attacked the first wave of minions a couple of times (to force an earlier level 2), while I only last hit the minions. This automatically meant the wave started pushing towards my side of the lane, creating a situation in which it actually became easier for me to safely farm (because I was close to my tower the entire time) while he was at risk of being ganked. Now I know you might be thinking "hang on, isn't pushing for level 2 a good thing?", and you'd be right, it is. However, you either need to abuse this level advantage by going for a kill or zoning your opponent ( Darius tried to do neither of the two) OR make sure the wave resets entirely by pushing the second wave hard. In his case, he didn't seem to be aware of this, so it wasn't until we were 4 or 5 waves in that he tried to undo the freeze that was created, at which point the wave of minions he sent to my tower was so big that it took way longer than it should for my tower to finish them all and the next two minion waves still met at my side of the lane, creating a new freeze (I hope that all makes sense, lol).
Had Darius not auto attacked the first wave several times, it would've probably been a good idea for me to deliberately miss one or two minions in order to still force the wave to push my way. A lot of players seem not to be aware of how much of an influence wave control has on the lane, and some who do still manage to screw it up regularly (definitely not talking about myself here....... >.<), so be aware of it. It's even more important in bad matchups.
4. This should go for any lane matchup ever, but is worth mentioning anyway: be the Darius. No, I don't mean this as a joke like Latest Legend, I just mean you should be asking yourself "if I were the Darius here, what would I do?". A simple example of an answer to this might be "if I were him, I'd Q my face as soon as I go in to last hit this minion". That answer should immediately lead to the thought "hmm, maybe it's not worth it to get that minion", which in turn should lead to you giving up the cs. In other words: be aware of not only your win conditions, but also his. Then play accordingly.
5. Ask for ganks (preferably pre-6, while the chances of him getting a double kill are low).
6. If you fall behind (and even ganks won't save you anymore), use your Teleport to make a play elsewhere and get other lanes to snowball.
As a final sidenote, I was maxing Hiten Style that game because I thought it'd be a good idea to abuse the main "kit advantage" I had over him (sustain), especially considering his passive. I'd have to play the matchup (a lot) more to be able to determine whether that choice was optimal though, so don't read too much into it.
Sorry for the wall of text, and let me know if you have any questions!
First off, I want to emphasize that a good
Darius should win the matchup. However, since going into a lane with the "I will lose 100%" mindset simply isn't going to cut it, I suppose I'll share my thoughts going into that game.Most importantly, set your priorities straight. In this lane, your main objective is to survive. Falling behind in cs a bit is ok (as long as you don't completely get zoned from the XP, which should only be the case if you get camped or have poor wave control), dying is not. Because of this, the general pointers I'd give an
Irelia player are:1. Play passive. Don't push for a level 2 advantage and try to chunk him, because his passive damage and
Ignite (if he uses that, like the Darius I faced did) will probably cause him to win even despite that advantage. It will also make it harder to control the minion wave properly, which is extremely important (will get back to that). Don't initiate trades after that unless your jungler is coming to gank, you have a minion to Q back to (after going in with Q on a low HP minion that is near him, then stunning him and auto attacking once or twice) OR you've survived long enough (~level 9) for your priorities to change.2. Build health. You can tell from the build tab in the match history that I got 2x
Doran's Blade, Cloth Armor and Ruby Crystal (for Phage) early, and I even went as far as to get a Giant's Belt before building Sheen / completing Trinity Force. That last move may not have been strictly necessary, but I did it because I wanted to avoid falling behind by dying to his burst. Getting Sheen much sooner in an attempt to outburst him is only a good idea if you're doing really well (in my case I was slightly ahead in cs for most of the lane, but unfortunately didn't get the ganks to build a bigger lead).3. Wave control is your biggest friend. In this game,
Darius auto attacked the first wave of minions a couple of times (to force an earlier level 2), while I only last hit the minions. This automatically meant the wave started pushing towards my side of the lane, creating a situation in which it actually became easier for me to safely farm (because I was close to my tower the entire time) while he was at risk of being ganked. Now I know you might be thinking "hang on, isn't pushing for level 2 a good thing?", and you'd be right, it is. However, you either need to abuse this level advantage by going for a kill or zoning your opponent ( Darius tried to do neither of the two) OR make sure the wave resets entirely by pushing the second wave hard. In his case, he didn't seem to be aware of this, so it wasn't until we were 4 or 5 waves in that he tried to undo the freeze that was created, at which point the wave of minions he sent to my tower was so big that it took way longer than it should for my tower to finish them all and the next two minion waves still met at my side of the lane, creating a new freeze (I hope that all makes sense, lol).Had
Darius not auto attacked the first wave several times, it would've probably been a good idea for me to deliberately miss one or two minions in order to still force the wave to push my way. A lot of players seem not to be aware of how much of an influence wave control has on the lane, and some who do still manage to screw it up regularly (definitely not talking about myself here....... >.<), so be aware of it. It's even more important in bad matchups.4. This should go for any lane matchup ever, but is worth mentioning anyway: be the
Darius. No, I don't mean this as a joke like Latest Legend, I just mean you should be asking yourself "if I were the Darius here, what would I do?". A simple example of an answer to this might be "if I were him, I'd Q my face as soon as I go in to last hit this minion". That answer should immediately lead to the thought "hmm, maybe it's not worth it to get that minion", which in turn should lead to you giving up the cs. In other words: be aware of not only your win conditions, but also his. Then play accordingly.5. Ask for ganks (preferably pre-6, while the chances of him getting a double kill are low).
6. If you fall behind (and even ganks won't save you anymore), use your
Teleport to make a play elsewhere and get other lanes to snowball.As a final sidenote, I was maxing
Hiten Style that game because I thought it'd be a good idea to abuse the main "kit advantage" I had over him (sustain), especially considering his passive. I'd have to play the matchup (a lot) more to be able to determine whether that choice was optimal though, so don't read too much into it.Sorry for the wall of text, and let me know if you have any questions!
It's not a joke, I really don't know how to play this matchup, I just found funny that you actually played this matchup being the Irelia a few days after.
Play passive. Don't push for a level 2 advantage and try to chunk him
Passive and chunk him? How? Going for E and then back off?
Thank you for this very detailed post, I learned a bit from every point. I think that I really have to try to learn wave control.
Who do you think does well against Darius in lane?
Irelia a few days after.Wayne3100 wrote:
Play passive. Don't push for a level 2 advantage and try to chunk him
Passive and chunk him? How? Going for E and then back off?
Thank you for this very detailed post, I learned a bit from every point. I think that I really have to try to learn wave control.
Who do you think does well against
Darius in lane?
Oh, sorry, wording might be a bit unclear. The "chunk him" part should be read as part of the "dont push for a level 2 advantage..." sentence. So it's not [Don't push for a level 2 advantage] and [try to chunk him], but Don't [push for a level 2 advantage and try to chunk him], if that makes sense :P
I would say most ranged champions tend to fare well against him. Teemo (as Joxuu mentioned), Kennen, Jayce and Lissandra should all win. I used to pick Kayle into it (works extremely well if played properly, especially since you can shield his ultimate entirely), but I don't play her as often anymore.
As for melee champions, I would expect Sion to do well considering his E damage and shield, but that's merely a guess. Most others should struggle in lane, but he's rather easily kited in teamfights so he's still not very popular.
I would say most ranged champions tend to fare well against him.
Teemo (as Joxuu mentioned), Kennen, Jayce and Lissandra should all win. I used to pick Kayle into it (works extremely well if played properly, especially since you can shield his ultimate entirely), but I don't play her as often anymore.As for melee champions, I would expect
Sion to do well considering his E damage and shield, but that's merely a guess. Most others should struggle in lane, but he's rather easily kited in teamfights so he's still not very popular.
Game 58 & 59
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As you can see, I still got +28 despite my terrible W/L record recently (2-8 in my last 10 games). Have to admit I'm a bit surprised.
Anyway, I was asked by my team to play
Annie in the first game, and although I tend to do quite well while trying to land a good Summon: Tibbers, my positioning on her is too aggressive atm (because I'm trying to stay in range to jump in as soon as I see an opportunity), causing me to get caught a lot. Need more practice. I'm also not really sure what to buy on her (which items should be standard or which can be bought situationally / when behind, for that matter), so Annie advice on that is welcome.I started a little shaky in the
Graves game, then played well during the mid game before kinda becoming careless, which led to me dying more than I should've during the late game. Luckily my team was fed enough for that not to matter at all though.Trying to focus on one game at a time at the moment seeing as looking at the bigger picture will only cause me to worry more.
I'm kind of at a loss myself since DFG got removed, but I think most people get Spellthief's Edge -> Frostfang Sightstone + boots -> Morellonomicon. I don't really like Morello's though and I tend to get Rabadon's Deathcap and Void Staff instead of that, and sometimes Mejai's Soulstealer (if the game is lookin' well) first and Haunting Guise (though I'm PRETTY sure the latter is bad on Annie so don't do that).
Glad to see your MMR is intact!
Spellthief's Edge -> Frostfang Sightstone + boots -> Morellonomicon. I don't really like Morello's though and I tend to get Rabadon's Deathcap and Void Staff instead of that, and sometimes Mejai's Soulstealer (if the game is lookin' well) first and Haunting Guise (though I'm PRETTY sure the latter is bad on Annie so don't do that).Glad to see your MMR is intact!
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@Bryun
Yup, became available after 2.5 years of inactivity :D
Edit:
Back to 0 LP after all.