"Pro" Guides

[quote=palzm]RAGE SHIELD PENETRATION ACTIVATE. haha lols jk. Yea it's true that some people (like you and me) don't really need an in-depth guide to build their own items, but some inexperienced player MIGHT need it. So for those of them who might need a bit more explanation, they will turn to the people's guide for more help. Even now, some people just go straight for the "Pro" guides area in which is already featured in the home page. So separating the "pro" with "regular" guides will allow top "regular" guides to be featured in their own section, without the "pro" guides interfering with the ratings of the other guides. I believe you should divide the "Pro" from other people's guides but regardless of whichever section it is in, feature the top guides from both area. Edit: I think it is a privilege that the "pros" are using this site to help people out with their own ideas. We shouldn't call names at anyone for using this awesome site, but just enjoy what each and everyone is contributing to this site.[/quote]

[quote=Bryun][quote=palzm] RAGE SHIELD PENETRATION ACTIVATE. haha lols jk. Yea it's true that some people (like you and me) don't really need an in-depth guide to build their own items, but some inexperienced player MIGHT need it. So for those of them who might need a bit more explanation, they will turn to the people's guide for more help. Even now, some people just go straight for the "Pro" guides area in which is already featured in the home page. So separating the "pro" with "regular" guides will allow top "regular" guides to be featured in their own section, without the "pro" guides interfering with the ratings of the other guides. I believe you should divide the "Pro" from other people's guides but regardless of whichever section it is in, feature the top guides from both area. [/quote] That is if we even get a type of "Top Champion List" on the main page like how the "Pro Guides" are. But by doing that, you would need a lot of space which we don't have and would clutter the main page to fit every champion. That's what the champion selection thing is for. I just think if you don't allow the "Pro Guides" to be voted on and give them a sort of seperate section on the champion selection thing (Like how the recommended guides are up on top) we'd have less rage and the members guides will be fine with the votes. I still believe people will just go to the Pro's guides more because it's just that everyone is shallow these days.[/quote]

[quote=Sinjustice][quote=Bryun] Also I don't see how they are acting childish... Wouldn't you retaliate if you were really harshly criticized by someone over how the aesthetics of the guide looks, I read your post on saintvicious's guide and it was just rude, you could have said it any nicer? [quote=Sinjustice] So in other words, Saintvicious makes really low quality guides/builds that don't even match up with themselves. Check. [/quote] Anyone would be mad. I don't think that's criticism, it's just being rude. And before you use the "build sequence is diff" He says in the guide If you're ahead go [[Trinity Force]]. If you're behind build tank first. Clearly he used the safer build as his main item sequence. What if you're not fed and you build [[Trinity Force]]? Could lead to a downfall in your game.... [/quote] [quote=Saintvicious]After I do my clear on jungle I pick up philo then go back to jungling/ganking. Pick up boots and madreds then heart of gold if it is sub 11 minutes. If it is not sub 11 minutes then grab your phage and a banshees. Finish trinity and then go for atmas after that. It is very unlikely you will finish the build and the tanking items are all dependent on how fast you are farming and the types of damage the enemy team has. If you are farming very poorly build tank over finishing trinity.[/quote] He says if it's post 11 min then you get TF. He never said anything about getting fed. My point was that his build didn't reflect his guide very well. His grammar is atrocious and hard to understand. Honestly, what you quoted is pretty tame. I criticized his other builds bout their low quality without being so blunt as what you quoted, but was met with things telling me to play the tutorial, etc. He's just rude. It's a negative influence on MOBAfire to have him trumping other guides. I'm not going to get into it with you, as I've already had enough of SV himself. The whole issue is being dealt with, there's really nothing to discuss.[/quote]

[quote=Bryun][quote=Sinjustice] [quote=Bryun] Also I don't see how they are acting childish... Wouldn't you retaliate if you were really harshly criticized by someone over how the aesthetics of the guide looks, I read your post on saintvicious's guide and it was just rude, you could have said it any nicer? [quote=Sinjustice] So in other words, Saintvicious makes really low quality guides/builds that don't even match up with themselves. Check. [/quote] Anyone would be mad. I don't think that's criticism, it's just being rude. And before you use the "build sequence is diff" He says in the guide If you're ahead go [[Trinity Force]]. If you're behind build tank first. Clearly he used the safer build as his main item sequence. What if you're not fed and you build [[Trinity Force]]? Could lead to a downfall in your game.... [/quote] [quote=Saintvicious]After I do my clear on jungle I pick up philo then go back to jungling/ganking. Pick up boots and madreds then heart of gold if it is sub 11 minutes. If it is not sub 11 minutes then grab your phage and a banshees. Finish trinity and then go for atmas after that. It is very unlikely you will finish the build and the tanking items are all dependent on how fast you are farming and the types of damage the enemy team has. If you are farming very poorly build tank over finishing trinity.[/quote] He says if it's post 11 min then you get TF. He never said anything about getting fed. My point was that his build didn't reflect his guide very well. His grammar is atrocious and hard to understand. Honestly, what you quoted is pretty tame. I criticized his other builds bout their low quality without being so blunt as what you quoted, but was met with things telling me to play the tutorial, etc. He's just rude. It's a negative influence on MOBAfire to have him trumping other guides. I'm not going to get into it with you, as I've already had enough of SV himself. The whole issue is being dealt with, there's really nothing to discuss. [/quote] [quote=Saintvicious]After I do my clear on jungle I pick up philo then go back to jungling/ganking. Pick up boots and madreds then heart of gold if it is sub 11 minutes. If it is not sub 11 minutes then grab your phage and a banshees. Finish trinity and then go for atmas after that. [u][b]It is very unlikely you will finish the build[/b][/u] and the tanking items are all dependent on how fast you are farming and the types of damage the enemy team has. [u][b]If you are farming very poorly build tank over finishing trinity.[/b][/u][/quote] When I read this I just get a hint that he's saying you should have at least a few kills or some assists by then since you are the jungler you can't steal someones lane just to farm. Either way he just used the safer build sequence for the community. It may not look pretty, and worded grammatically correct but I can still comprehend it and it's not as bad as you are making it to be. I give you that on the rudeness which is unexcuseable , but his reaction still doesn't make his guide not viable. It's still good no matter what he says. I judge on the build not the personality of the author. And I actually contributed an idea up top if you didn't read it.[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]If I'm correct, Jebus mentioned a suggestion of removing the guides from being featured in the top 10. Not removing them from "normal guides". That way the guides will still be there, on the front page and when you search for a champion, but not totally "in your face, here's my five minute effort trumping all others coz I'm a pro".[/quote]

[quote=Dotter]I agree that the guides lack quality. And listing a certain item order can be done by a normal user and a player, who isn't pro. I'm not saying that all pro guides are bad, some of them I've found to be really good. Maybe I see it this way, because I have no opinion on pros. I don't watch livestreams that much and I'm not a fan of any pro, so it's not like I go: OMG HOTSHOTGG!! UPVOTE <333 I look just as critically on the guide whether it is a pro or not, and I think all users on MOBA should do that. The item builds are of high quality, of course. But some of the guides are not that well explained and it seems like some of them put no effort in it. I mainly remember that the Alistar guide, which I didn't find to be that good at all, still got a lot of upvotes. Bigfatlp simply put just says: pick these summoner spells and own. They are not that noobfriendly and probably won't be that good for new players, since alot of tips and explanations are left out. But the worst problem with this is still the mind some of the pros have towards the community, but that has already been mentioned ^^[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]You guys, other than a select few are being little babies. Just because your precious idea to "bring the pros in and magically have them spend the hundreds of hours on a guide that i did!" isn't working out, you are now crying because your idea didn't work out, and that the pro's didn't "contribute to the community much". It's funny, the only people taking this well are Jhoijhoi, and she has a HUGE guide that probably took her HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of hours to make. The quality of the pro guides, is such that if made in 4-5 hours, they are pretty high quality. Most of the strategies in high elo are ANYTHING but locked down. If you were to write a guide covering EVERYTHING you would ever encounter as that character, then your guide would be as long as Jhoi's. I guess it's kind of a "Why isn't my guide 95%" thing, and i'm immune to this because of how hard i get trolled. But seriously, moving the guides so they don't show up in the top 10 is fine, but calling them out for not contributing to the community because they don't post in forum topics a lot, or because their only posts are to "establish" themselves as good platers, when they shouldn't have to, then i REALLY don't see the argument. These pros are acting like children, because YOU are acting like children to them. They aren't just saying that they are good and you should listen to them because they feel like it. They ARE good, they ARE successful at higher ELO, and that's a decent reason to listen to them. I laugh at this topic because it's from a guy that got told off by a pro because the pro was 1000 ELO higher than them, and he was trying to point out an inconsistency that didn't exist in the pro's guide. I'm not trying to be anything but honest with this post. Basically, if you expected the pros to be "just another forum goer" or something like that, then you really need to think about how much time you spend on the forum, and how much time they have to spend AWAY from the forum. Honestly, I'm amazed at how much Saint uses Mobafire. I've never even IMAGINED Triforce Yi, and i just started playing Yi again because of it. TL;DR: Stop Whining, move pro guides outside the top 10 guides & w/e.[/quote]

[quote=Dotter]Temzilla, it actually has nothing to do with them having higher ratings than other users (in this case me). Not in my opinion at least. I did not expect them to be searching the forum threads, but I think it is a problem if they have other guides overlooked, which users has spent way more time on making. It's not that big a deal imo, it doesn't affect me that much, but I still have an opinion on this. ^^[/quote]

[quote=jhoijhoi]haha Tem :P Not quite thousands of hours just yet :P <3 I'm sure the people in this thread are not QQing about the scores of the Pro guides (who cares about scores, amiright? ;D). What they are QQing about is the lack of depth, which is completely acceptable. ITT people are genuinely saddened by the lack of effort the Pros have put into their guides (the Alistar one I read said something like, "and den u kill shit" - I haven't read a Pro guide since). There's no need to get upset about this though, as Matt and the other holy authorities of MobaFire are talking about how the site is being seen regarding the Pro guides. So everyone calm down, take a deep breath and just enjoy reading really bad guides ^^[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice]If you are going to separate their guides from normal guides you might as well take them off mobafire... Because then it's just "Pro guides and mobafire guides" instead of "Pro guides with mobafire guides". Seriously. If you don't like the quality of guide, downvote it and move on. Fact of the matter is, their builds are strong and proven at high level, whether you like the quality of the guide or don't.[/quote]