Offtank Nocturne

[quote=JunSupport]edit: Oh, you mean the other guy. Nevermind. :)[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=JunSupport] What is your standard for saying most items give 20% more stats? What item counts as the item that gives 100% stats for it's cost, which is the item you use to compare all other items? [[Long Sword]]? [[Meki Pendant]]? [[Amplifying Tome]]? AND what makes you so sure that 100%-effectiveness item isn't actually ABOVE in effectiveness and that your standard is too high? The best way to compare items is by it's distinct difference from the [u]majority[/u]. If [u]most[/u] items are 120%, shouldn't they be the standard that is the actual 100%?[/quote] I'm using the components as 100%. [quote][color=#ffff00]Also, what is your rebuttal to my ACTUAL rebuttal regarding Bloodthirster?[/color] You seem very focused on cost-effectiveness. I clearly said that this above subject has nothing to do with my BT reasoning, there's more to choosing the right items then cost-effectiveness.[/quote] It's certainly viable, but I personally wouldn't pick it over any tanky DPS items. Atma being numbah wann right now. You get 8% less than you pay for with BT. You get 46% more than you pay for with Atma's Impaler. And that's with only BV+Trinity. You'd get even more with Atmog.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]That's why I say I like to focus more on the DPS part of Tanky DPS. And I've started using [icon=The Black Cleaver size=16] Black Cleaver, so Thornmail doesn't do **** to my Nocturne anymore. :) On another note, in what world is building [[Trinity Force]] on [[Nocturne]] a good idea? His cooldowns aren't nearly low enough.[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=JunSupport] That's why I say I like to focus more on the DPS part of Tanky DPS. And I've started using [icon=The Black Cleaver size=16] Black Cleaver, so Thornmail doesn't do **** to my Nocturne anymore. :)[/quote] It was never really a counter to Noc anyway.. Thornmail is more of a counter to heavy physical damage carries who will deal more damage to themselves than their enemy when they have it (even without the enemy attacking them). [quote]On another note, in what world is building [[Trinity Force]] on [[Nocturne]] a good idea? His cooldowns aren't nearly low enough.[/quote] It's for the burst, slow and MS. I used to build Mallet for the slow on tanky Noc, but TF does that job almost as good while giving a bunch of other stuff too. I don't know for sure which is better tho.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]The people I've been playing against always seem to buy Thornmail when I start doing well. >...> And, TriForce will probably start looking better when Red Buff starts hasting the holder instead of slowing the targets.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]At the moment, I build FM for an offtank build with good sustained DPS. Noct gets pretty un-escapable that way. If I built burst, I would forgo the slow entirely, focusing on DPS and grabbing red buff for the slow. TriForce is a bit too middle ground for me. But like Jun says, the red buff change is going to make things interesting.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Eh? Where have you heard about that change?[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]Part of the jungle rework I guess. I heard it somewhere in MobaFire, maybe in the chat room. Somebody said that blue buff is going to do more for no-resource mages like morde and vlad. Not sure what though. Also spawn times are supposed to be shortened on small creep camps so side lanes can dip into the jungle without harming their jungler. Might see some more counter-jungling too.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]It's an odd feeling knowing I'm way more knowledgeable of Riot's plans then 90% of the LoL player community... @Searz: To summarize. Current jungle is bad. -Counter-jungling is anti-fun. If a strategy's only counter is itself, it's bad. Counter-jungling can only be countered with counter-jungling. (If the enemy guards against that, you're screwed) -The jungle route also ends too quickly, you must gank after hitting level4~6 and leech some exp or you fall behind. -Knowing the jungler WILL try to gank makes the lane phase boring: Overextend or push or try to control the lane too much, and you get ganked. Red buff ensures you either must use Flash or die because slows mean the entire enemy group catches you Guinsoo's been solving these problems in a few ways: 1. Reducing creep-camp respawn timers and weakening some tough mobs like Golems and the big wraith. -This allows laners to grab jungle camps without ruining the jungler's route. -This also weakens counter-jungling considerably -If lanes aren't gank-worthy, you can stay in the jungle longer and stay on top of your farming and levels 2. Red buff will haste the carrier instead of slow struck targets -That way, if you choose to dominate a lane by being [U]strategically[/u] aggressive, you won't get destroyed by a single gank because the red buff means only the enemy jungler will be able to keep up with you, no more slow that leads to all enemies pouncing on you.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Ooohh, man. Those changes sound awesome. I coulda called the weakening of monsters and reduction of respawn timers, but the red buff change sounds really good too. Now you don't need to auto attack to make proper use of it :D I hope it does something more than just speed you up tho. The DoT it has is useful too.[/quote]