Serpe's Jungling Corner!

[quote=ZioSerpe][center][IMG]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a65/LuckySmoker17/Jungling.gif[/IMG] [h1][b][color=#008000]Hello Everyone And Welcome to your friendly Q&A thread about jungle[/color][/b][/h1] So yeah there was a lot of stuff including tier list in here but it kinda died and I also realized that it doesn't really follow the proupose of this thread. Just ask questions about jungling, I'll answer to anything I can. Feel free to ask for build, route tips and such. [Right][color=#ff8000][b]Special thanks to Spaceycoww for the banner[/b][/color][/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]Interesting. I jungle on occassion. Udyr or tryn. Used to jungle xin too.[/quote]

[quote=Yougan]Junglers, another thing I will never play. :3[/quote]

[quote=omagma]Why is Riven so tier 3? Her clear times are fast, her ganks are effective and can duel pretty well. There are more weird choices, like Lee being tier 2 and not 1 /: He was amazing before and still are. Why place him there? (what really bugs me is that GP is higher than him... really?) These are some of the things i like you to explained.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Every friggin time I see Gangplank higher than tier 3 or 4, I lol my fuckin ass off. He's not even a good pick anymore compared to others. No AoE damage means slow clears. Weak slow unless they get in melee range for you to continuously re-apply it. Only thing he has going for him is the global ult... which is RNG based damage. <_<[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=omagma] Why is Riven so tier 3? Her clear times are fast, her ganks are effective and can duel pretty well. There are more weird choices, like Lee being tier 2 and not 1 /: He was amazing before and still are. Why place him there? (what really bugs me is that GP is higher than him... really?) [/quote] Despite Riven being an excelent jungler she shines way better as a solo top champ right now, her old jungle strengh were early ganking and early jungle invasion, but with new respawn times and the heal on minions the second is no more a strengh as other junglers can just keep going at low lvl even if she stole some creeps, she also scales amazing with items and solo top she can get way more gold than she would in jungle. Lee sin is 1st in tier 2, he's borderline tier 1 atm, he's still great in the jungle and at early lvl ganking, but T1 junglers are just better than he is. New jungle strongly rewards higly succesfull ganks (the ones that net you a kill or an assist); wich is actually the reason for Maokai to be the best jungler in the game right now. Lee Sin's ganks are annoying as hell, but netting a kill or an assist for him is less eaier than t1 champions. GP is higher than Lee because at any given time he has a permaslow (much like shaco) and a perfect ganking steroid (the movespeed is invaluable at early lvls) that he shares with his allies in the lane[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=Lugignaf] Every friggin time I see Gangplank higher than tier 3 or 4, I lol my fuckin ass off. He's not even a good pick anymore compared to others. No AoE damage means slow clears. Weak slow unless they get in melee range for you to continuously re-apply it. Only thing he has going for him is the global ult... which is RNG based damage. <_< [/quote] Since the jungle change he's incredible. Great clear times, great ganks. Only think he lacked was survivability, and that was basically all removed since the change. He's easily tier 1/high tier 2 material right now. I do inquire about why Leona and Talon are in there though, especially over champions such as Fizz, Kayle, Nasus, MANTHEON, etc. And even though Maokai has some of the best ganks/counter jungling in the game, he's by no means better than Shaco at any of that, and as such shouldn't be the top jungler - not that those two traits even make a good jungler anyway, especially since the change where both are worsened.[/quote]

[quote=ZioSerpe][quote=Xenasis] [quote=Lugignaf] Every friggin time I see Gangplank higher than tier 3 or 4, I lol my fuckin ass off. He's not even a good pick anymore compared to others. No AoE damage means slow clears. Weak slow unless they get in melee range for you to continuously re-apply it. Only thing he has going for him is the global ult... which is RNG based damage. <_< [/quote] Since the jungle change he's incredible. Great clear times, great ganks. Only think he lacked was survivability, and that was basically all removed since the change. He's easily tier 1/high tier 2 material right now. I do inquire about why Leona and Talon are in there though, especially over champions such as Fizz, Kayle, Nasus, MANTHEON, etc. And even though Maokai has some of the best ganks/counter jungling in the game, he's by no means better than Shaco at any of that, and as such shouldn't be the top jungler - not that those two traits even make a good jungler anyway, especially since the change where both are worsened. [/quote] Maokai scales insanely well whole game, new jungle rewards succesfull ganks a lot, and having a succesfull gank as maokai is as easy as it gets. And tho shaco ganks are amazing and his counter jungling is absurd Maokai never falls back during the game due to the fact he starts with GP/5 items right off the bat. Maokai strengh over shaco is all in the overall usefulness. We don't see much shaco in the competitive scene because he's a selfish oriented jungler and that's his greatest weakness. Leona jungle is actually becoming a thing, she's tier 3 because she's way better like anywhere else but as a jungler her high amount of CC makes her very annoying, basically she has great ganks. Talon is there because despite you'd rather not he can jungle prety easily with decent clear times and decent ganks. Manteon isn't here because I totally forgot about him, I'll add him now.[/quote]

[quote=Xenasis][quote=ZioSerpe] Maokai scales insanely well whole game, new jungle rewards succesfull ganks a lot, and having a succesfull gank as maokai is as easy as it gets. And tho shaco ganks are amazing and his counter jungling is absurd Maokai never falls back during the game due to the fact he starts with GP/5 items right off the bat. Maokai strengh over shaco is all in the overall usefulness. We don't see much shaco in the competitive scene because he's a selfish oriented jungler and that's his greatest weakness. Leona jungle is actually becoming a thing, she's tier 3 because she's way better like anywhere else but as a jungler her high amount of CC makes her very annoying, basically she has great ganks. Talon is there because despite you'd rather not he can jungle prety easily with decent clear times and decent ganks. Manteon isn't here because I totally forgot about him, I'll add him now. [/quote] Shaco's been used quite a bit recently, he was used a surprisingly high amount in WCG (which is the most recent tournament, and having been over the past few days), Maokai's only ever used by TheOddOne. Shaco never falls back in a game really, and though Mao can get GP5 items (though OddOne rarely does), he still relies on early ganks to keep levelled, and is extremely, extremely blue dependant. Shaco's seen far more competitive play recently than Maokai. Leona jungle "becoming a thing" doesn't change how good she is. She's far, far better as an aggressive support. There are a LOT of junglers more potent that her at ganking you've not listed (as a quick example, Twitch or Blitz), though they aren't good in the jungle, Leona isn't either, far from it - I see no reason why somebody as bad as her is in over those, why? She wastes the jungle gold, too, especially in the new jungle - especially when she's SO SLOW and SO BAD AT DUELING. Talon has decent ganks, yet he's mana starved due to his Rake's cost, has no sustain, and absolutely nothing going for him in the jungle. The only thing he has is ganks, and that prowess is seen when he's laning, too. What about Kayle/Fizz? Kayle, for one, is surprisingly strong in the new jungle. The only thing she lacked is survivability, she has a heal, but it wasn't enough, now it is. Anyway, time to sleep for me.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]Y u Nunu Tier 3? Isn't his counter jungling like... The best in the game atm? He almost instantly kills the big creep in the small camps, and severely underlevels the enemy jungler. Nunu basically counters WW in that respect, steals all his shit, and he has to gank pre-6 or hit level 6 at 20 minutes.[/quote]