Malady and Madred's Bloodrazor, two useless items

[quote=NicknameMy]Creating a new item which builds out of [[malady]] is also an idea, I had that one aswell before, but the difference to [[hexdrinker]] is that [[malady]] isn't used because nearly no champ can use the combination of the stats. If you just make an upgrade for it, it doesn't help that much.[/quote]

[quote=NinjaSprite][quote=NicknameMy] Creating a new item which builds out of [[malady]] is also an idea, I had that one aswell before, but the difference to [[hexdrinker]] is that [[malady]] isn't used because nearly no champ can use the combination of the stats. If you just make an upgrade for it, it doesn't help that much. [/quote] I'm fairly certain you just copied word for word what other people have said in this thread throughout that whole post.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]And? It was an answer to the idea to make an upgrade to [[malady]]. Is that so wrong?[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden]Well... Madred's bloodrazor isn't useless... at all... I'm gonna take an assumption that AD=Magicdamage and Magicdamage=AD for the sake of easier equations. Keep in mind though, that AD-damage>Magic damage cuz crit. Same amount of AS like wits end so that's the same. Against a 2000 hp enemy champion madreds does 120 damage. that's 3 times the damage a wits end does. we're missing out on between 5-25 resist. I'm gonna make the equation of armour/value from a cloth armor the least cost effective armor item in the game. so each resist point is worth 16,5 gold This means around 83,33333333-416,6666667 worth of resist stats. So to outline it comparing madreds to one of the considered most cost effective items in the game wits end. It costs double the price. 3870 It does 3 times as much damage(worst case scenario). Wits end=2000, 2000*3=6000 It lacks 400 gold of resist. 6000-400=5600 It gives immensely fast barons. U can't put a price on this So this bad item, if we compare the stats to one of the considered best items in the game, it's much more cost effective. Btw, this is the old Wits end.[/quote]

[quote=tehAsian][quote=lifebaka] Like the Hexdrinker, though, they'd probably reduce the components to build Malady down to two, removing one of the daggers, lowering the price, and reducing the stats. [/quote] The funny thing is, that's exactly what I was thinking this morning. [[dagger]](420) + [[amplifying tome]](435) + Recipe(445) = New [[malady]](1300). 25% AS, 35 AP, 8 Shred for 3 hits. New item: [[malady]] + [[blasting wand]] + 540 Recipe = Item for 2600 gold 25% or 30% AS, 80 AP, 10 or 12 shred for 4 hits.[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=Pølsemanden] Against a 2000 hp enemy champion madreds does 120 damage. that's 3 times the damage a wits end does. [/quote] [[Madred's Bloodrazor]] only hits for 4% of an enemy's max HP, so against a 2000 HP champion it would do 80 damage, not 120. This is roughly twice the damage on Wit's End, not triple it. Your value for the Bloodrazor, then, would come out to 3600, which is pretty close to its cost. I don't think this is the right way to try to value the Bloodrazor, though. Using some [url=]old numbers of mine[/url], you're paying 1140.56 gold for its passive. Finding the value for the on-hit magic damage it deals is difficult, but for the sake of argument I'm going to use the 39.06 gold I calculated for AD, because the Bloodrazor is a bad choice for crit-heavy builds anyway. Using these numbers, the Bloodrazor only needs to deal about 29.2 damage in order to break even on gold cost to item value, which means that the target's HP only needs to be about 730. Even using a value-per-damage as low as 20 gold, the Bloodrazor is cost-efficient before 1500 enemy HP. The main thing I'm trying to show with these calculations is that the Bloodrazor remains a cost-efficient item even against squishy targets, and becomes obviously god-like against those who stack HP. It's an excellent mid- to late-game choice on champions that don't build much damage and can make good use of the attack speed it provides, such as Udyr and Warwick.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]^You need to consider that all items give bonuses a lot bigger than the combined cost. You get an extra bonus for finishing an item. Thus you can't put a real value on the passive on MBR. But I would say that against enemies with above 2500HP it's a good item for anyone that doesn't build crit or armor penetration.[/quote]

[quote=MyRepublic]Oh how I would love it if they buffed these items. Why? because I already rape when I build them. No they shouldn't be built on tanky dps (not enough bang for the buck) or AD (wtf why would you ever do that?) they are meant for people going on hit. kayle/kog maw destroy with these items. malady does actually give you quite the damage boost early and gives it much sooner than your opponents get their damage items making it easier to farm, poke, take towers, take drag, and get ahead. Later you simply sell it off for another item. The madred's is great all game unlike the malady (which only really falls off when you have enough for better items anyway which causes no problem) So all in all these are niche items. They failed miserably at what they were designed for and what people try to use them for but are complete successes with on hit champs. Good days sir. And keep asking for that buff to these items. I'd just love to become even more ridiculously strong early game and able to retain even more power into late. That'd be perfect.[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=lifebaka] [quote=Pølsemanden] Against a 2000 hp enemy champion madreds does 120 damage. that's 3 times the damage a wits end does. [/quote] [[Madred's Bloodrazor]] only hits for 4% of an enemy's max HP, so against a 2000 HP champion it would do 80 damage, not 120. This is roughly twice the damage on Wit's End, not triple it. Your value for the Bloodrazor, then, would come out to 3600, which is pretty close to its cost. I don't think this is the right way to try to value the Bloodrazor, though. Using some [url=]old numbers of mine[/url], you're paying 1140.56 gold for its passive. Finding the value for the on-hit magic damage it deals is difficult, but for the sake of argument I'm going to use the 39.06 gold I calculated for AD, because the Bloodrazor is a bad choice for crit-heavy builds anyway. Using these numbers, the Bloodrazor only needs to deal about 29.2 damage in order to break even on gold cost to item value, which means that the target's HP only needs to be about 730. Even using a value-per-damage as low as 20 gold, the Bloodrazor is cost-efficient before 1500 enemy HP. The main thing I'm trying to show with these calculations is that the Bloodrazor remains a cost-efficient item even against squishy targets, and becomes obviously god-like against those who stack HP. It's an excellent mid- to late-game choice on champions that don't build much damage and can make good use of the attack speed it provides, such as Udyr and Warwick. [/quote] 4%2000=80 40 ad...... 80+40, it's not math for geniousses my friend... The only problem is the INCREDIBLY HIGH PRICE![/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]But, you also have to consider into the calculation, that the AD isn't that great on on-hit champs, while the passive also gets a hard hit from magic resistance. And [[malady]] can't counter that MR. For AD, the passive is, if the enemy has 100 mr, only 2%. And since you want to focus with it tanky champions, I don't see why. So if you calculate the mr at 100, it would be cost efficient if the enemy has [color=#ff0000][b]5000 or more HP[/b][/color]. So, it would only be cost efficient if you use it vs a [[cho'gath]] with [[warmog's armor]] an [[Frozen mallet]], which would have 4750 HP. Oh, forget about that, he has [[force of nature]], [[mercury's treads]] and [[wit's end]] aswell. (And [[frozen heart]], but that doesn't matter)[/quote]