Need help playing Riven top

[quote=PsiGuard]^If he's in a weak position like that, you could just win a regular trade and then be in kill range with your ultimate on the next one. The threat of burst damage is often much more effective for zoning and lane control than the damage itself. Getting him down to 30% health is great (though if he has any pots or a revolver he'll just sustain it back), but getting him to 60% and killing him on the next trade will be more effective if you can pull it off. Having your ultimate up makes it easier to zone, especially since the second activation is a finisher. Having it on cooldown lowers your kill potential a bit and will make your lane opponent less shy about approaching you. My opinion with most ultimates is you should use it for a killing tool or to secure a kill. It's all right if you don't last-hit with your ultimate (though with Riven it works pretty well), but blowing your ult should result in something significantly beneficial happening (such as taking a tower, getting a kill, saving a teammate, stealing an objective, etc.). There are only a few champions that can and should use their ultimate as a harass and I don't believe that Riven is among them. EDIT: By the way, I main Riven for top lane and Lux for mid lane. Both of them have strong killing ultimates with fairly short cooldowns. From my own experience I can tell you that saving your ultimate for when it's needed tends to pay off more than gambling it on a harass that may go to waste.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]I can't seem to view the replay so I'll give you my tips based on your scoresheet. First, know when to trade. Only go in to harass when you know the enemy cannot retaliate or when you know you'll do a lot more damage. Also, don't let the enemy laner hinder your build too much. - Brutalizer is only against low armor targets - skip the brut. - Don't get hyped up on resistances, too. To trade and have a presence you also need damage. I would say get 1/2 blades then a hexdrinker and then just aim for more sustain if you're losing lane, else go for the standard bloodthirster ga. Knowing your enemy is also a great help. For example, Rumble is generally weak 1~4 and stronger after 4.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]^hrmmm, sounds familiar....[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy][quote=PsiGuard] Unfortunately I can't seem to view your replay file. I can see the score screen though so I have a couple tips. Against a Rumble you'll want to start with [[boots of speed]] and 3 [[health potions]]. Build 2-3 [[doran's blades]] and a [[hexdrinker]] if you're having trouble dealing with his damage (you can throw in a [[vampiric scepter]] for more sustain). If you're having a good early game you can skip the Hexdrinker and go straight for [[The Bloodthirster]]. Don't build [[The Brutalizer]] and don't go for [[Guardian Angel]] until you finish a main damage item. I usually don't build it until I have at least [[The Bloodthirster]] completed. End-game build should look something like this: [icon=mercury's treads][icon=the bloodthirster][icon=maw of malmortius][icon=guardian angel][icon=last whisper][icon=the bloodthirster] Usually your situational defense item is either [[maw of malmortius]] or [[randuin's omen]]. You can and should use [[Ninja Tabi]] against AD tops, at least for the first half of the game or so. You can always swap them out late game. If you're laning against an AP like Rumble, make sure you're runed for it. Use 21/9/0 masteries with 3 points in [[Resistance]]. Make sure you have [[Greater Glyph of Warding]]. I'd probably just run armor seals and AD marks/quints for the rest. Armor pen marks are fine too. You should usually max R, then W, then E, then Q. Make sure you have a ward up if you're pushing. If you lost your lane as a result of one or more jungler ganks, chances are you were overextended without sight. Warding the river allows you to push your lane aggressively if need be and can let you zone properly without fear of being ganked. I think that's as much advice as I can give you without seeing the replay. [/quote] I think this build got a little problem. It doesn't have any item which gives HP. I think considering [[frozen mallet]]/[[warmog's armor]] as situational defencive item combined with [[guardian angel]] is most of the time better. Especially if the enemy is burst-heavy or has true dmg. HP counters most mages aswell.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard][quote=NicknameMy] I think this build got a little problem. It doesn't have any item which gives HP. I think considering [[frozen mallet]]/[[warmog's armor]] as situational defencive item combined with [[guardian angel]] is most of the time better. Especially if the enemy is burst-heavy or has true dmg. HP counters most mages aswell. [/quote] I used to build like that, but the fact is that [[The Bloodthirster]] and [[Guardian Angel]] combined with Riven's kit make her far more survivable than she seems. For one, GA already gives you an extra chunk of health on revive should you be focused down. Secondly we have the spammable [[Valor]] ability which boosts your health pool several times during a team fight. The shield is also enhanced by the resistances from GA. Then we have [[The Bloodthirster]](s), which constantly refresh your effective health pool. When you lifesteal 1500 health back in a team fight, that's quite similar to having 1500 health more at the beginning with no lifesteal. Since Riven can easily hit heights of around 400 AD, every autoattack is going to return a massive amount of health. Every time you lifesteal, you're running it through GA again before it's reduced. The way her kit works (with her high AD, autoattack damage and spammable shield), your high health pool is there, just not all at once. Most of the time you should be able to get by without building a single health item (except maybe Randuin's, but that's more for the armor and passive/active).[/quote]

[quote=SkullzX]TO what you said PSI yes you are right getting them to 60% then going for a kill is more optimal then sending them back but, if you can make them back 2-3 extra times you will at that point be ahead in EXP/CS making it easier to kill them a little later(also if they went back 2-3 times you could of taken the turret if you wanted). Yes I do agree though you can usually combo them once or twice then the next time ult and go for the kill, I was just stating that there isn't much point in playing passive and letting your ult sit there for 5 minutes(well as riven atleast) if you do this you will probably just break even in lane! Also just a tip at level 11 if you ult somone and kill them or send them back by the time they get to the lane your ult will be up by about the next CS wave or so :) just a friendly tip! Also keep in mind your ult at lv 6 is a 75 second CD well rumbles at level 16 is a 75 CD. Also warmogs isn't so great on riven since it only gives Hp and riven loves AD! Hope you get what I ment PSI because I think you missinturbrite what I mean by spam...no i dont mean OH ULTS UP USE IT![/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100][quote=PsiGuard]As long as you're not maxing Q first you're probably fine.[/quote] You do realise that ever since they increased the Q damage and reduced the W damage (a long time ago) it is actually quite common to max Q first, right? Personally I'm still a fan of W (and I know Wintermond - best Riven I know - maxes it first too), but it's not like Q is bad, not at all in fact.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]For that you got [[frozen mallet]] then. It gives HP and AD. The slow is nice aswell. [[warmog's armor]] lost his status of god tier item since the nerf of it and [[atma's impaler]]. I think the build of [[darius]]/[[lee sin]] is similar to [[riven]].[/quote]

[quote=SkullzX]Its pretty situational what you max on riven, I like to max W or E for the CD but, at time get 2-3 points into Q first for extra damage, it really depends on the game.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Q or W in lanes you can win. E in lanes you can't win. Keep in mind that if you max E, even if jungler ganks you porbably can't land kills.[/quote]