Countering AP Yi

[quote=Embracing]Early cdr? ...................................... You've got to be kidding me that't not and never will be a legit counterbuild. Just sit back and farm and then counterpush when he roams. Just make sure to not get poked down. I'd say go Double dorans abyssal raba[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]Let him alpha you, then just hard cc him while he meditates, then he cant do anything, litteraly[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark]You don't counter AP Yi. Ever. His [[alpha strike]] out-trades almost anything, and [[meditate]] is the biggest heal in the game by far. And @ the above post, if the Yi is standing right in front of you while he meditates then he's retarded. It would be stupid for any AP Yi to [[meditate]] right in range of someone who can interrupt it with CC. If as AP Yi I ever need to heal I go back to my tower, do it, then go back to farming / harassing. I've never really lost a lane as AP Yi I don't think, but I think maybe the best chance you'd have against him is to push the lane like hell and harass him if he tries to counter-push with auto-attacks. AP Yi's harass comes from using [[alpha strike]] on your minions when there's only 3 of your minions left on your lane. [[Alpha strike]] randomly strike 4 targets, and if there's only 4 targets in range, the 3 minions and you, then you're always going to get bit by it. But if you push like hell his minions won't be able to kill any of your minions and he won't be able to get free harass. If he tries to push your minions himself then you can just throw everything you've got on him. This also keeps him from roaming, which is good as AP Yi's roaming is extremely strong. Double kills on bot lane are super easy for AP Yi, so long as he's got enough mana for his ultimate and 2 [[alpha strike]]s. Also, a mistake I've seen lots of people do is that when I [[meditate]] on about 50% HP or above right in range of them and they have no hard CC that can interrupt it, they think it's their chance to kill me by using [[ignite]] and hurling everything they have at me. This isn't smart at all because even if I'm taking 50% less healing, I'm still gonna have 300 armor and magic resist. It's actually just a ploy to get all your spells on cooldown and to get you to waste your [[ignite]]. If you're playing a champ with no hard CC and he starts healing right in front of you, don't fall for the bait. Just try and get your jungler to gank as his heal has a CD of 35 seconds or something. Also, after he's hit lvl 6, if you're on about 30% HP, that is the time to recall unless you have some sort of plan to kill him before he can kill you. Last tip, watch out for his passive. Standard harass on AP Yi is to [[alpha strike]] when there are only 3 minions on the lane, but if he gets [[double strike]] up he might choose to use [[alpha strike]] directly on you instead, and then use [[double strike]] for quite a bit of damage on you, especially if he takes a point in [[wuju style]] at lvl 4 instead of another point in [[meditation]].[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]Lets say your playing ahri, you can easily charm him under his tower And once he blows his alpha strike, he cant do much more damage to you, so you can start zoning him and pushing his turret while he waits for the cooldown. And when he alpha strikes, dont run away, just follow him and attack him while he runs to his turret to meditate[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Thalia Kael] Lets say your playing ahri, you can easily charm him under his tower And once he blows his alpha strike, he cant do much more damage to you, so you can start zoning him and pushing his turret while he waits for the cooldown. And when he alpha strikes, dont run away, just follow him and attack him while he runs to his turret to meditate [/quote] You won't charm him under his tower, because you don't follow your enemy every time he goes into the fog of war, you just farm and call ss. And if you do actually decide to follow him, it would be stupid of him to [[meditate]] when he can clearly see [[Ahri]] walking up to him. He can just go PAST his tower to [[meditate]]. Don't count on stopping his lane sustain by interrupting [[meditate]] because any competent AP Yi will never be in any position that it can be interrupted, with the exception of jungler ganks forcing him to choose between healing or dying. You'll zone him while his [[alpha strike]] is on cooldown. Then it comes off of cooldown and he'll get 3 minion kills and you'll get hit by a massive nuke with 300 base damage and a 100% AP ratio. Then it will happen again, and again, then he'll kill you. I'd gladly let you out-farm me by 5 minions if it means I kill you, and get to catch up to that farm while you're dead as well as score a double kill on bot. You may think I'm making out AP Yi to be a lot better than he actually is, but I'm not. A few weeks ago I scored a 1v5 quadra / unofficial penta while my only items were [[rabadon's deathcap]] and [[lich bane]]. They weren't at full HP, but the person with the lowest HP there had 30% HP, while the rest ranged from 40% HP and above. As far as I know, there's no way to counter AP Yi either inside the laning phase or out of it. AP Yi's playstyle beats any lane opponent once he has 2 [[doran's ring]]s or a blue buff, and in teamfights he drops constant 700 damage multi-target nukes, and constant 1.1k or so single-target nukes ( because of [[lich bane]] ). Once he's got his 3 core items, [[rabadon's deathcap]], [[lich bane]] and [[deathfire grasp]], his burst kills an AD carry straight away with no chance of them surviving it, which immediately refreshes all of his spells' cooldowns, including [[alpha strike]] and [[highlander]]. During his burst [[alpha strike]] would have hit 3 other enemies, and if one of them was another squishy target, such as the AP carry or a squishy support like [[sona]], then with [[alpha strike]] and [[Lich bane]]'s proc he'll score another kill, drop another 700 damage nuke on most of their team, and have [[alpha strike]] refreshed AGAIN for another 700 damage nuke, which can potentially kill a 3rd target for yet another cooldowns refresh. So that's 2 or 3 enemies killed by AP Yi in about 3 seconds, of which in almost the entire duration he was untargettable. Only counter? Have all your squishies buy [[guardian angel]] so his cooldowns don't instantly refresh after his burst and he can be focused if your team is co-ordinated enough. Good luck making that happen in solo queue.[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael][quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=Thalia Kael] Lets say your playing ahri, you can easily charm him under his tower And once he blows his alpha strike, he cant do much more damage to you, so you can start zoning him and pushing his turret while he waits for the cooldown. And when he alpha strikes, dont run away, just follow him and attack him while he runs to his turret to meditate [/quote] You won't charm him under his tower, because you don't follow your enemy every time he goes into the fog of war, you just farm and call ss. And if you do actually decide to follow him, it would be stupid of him to [[meditate]] when he can clearly see [[Ahri]] walking up to him. He can just go PAST his tower to [[meditate]]. Don't count on stopping his lane sustain by interrupting [[meditate]] because any competent AP Yi will never be in any position that it can be interrupted, with the exception of jungler ganks forcing him to choose between healing or dying. You'll zone him while his [[alpha strike]] is on cooldown. Then it comes off of cooldown and he'll get 3 minion kills and you'll get hit by a massive nuke with 300 base damage and a 100% AP ratio. Then it will happen again, and again, then he'll kill you. I'd gladly let you out-farm me by 5 minions if it means I kill you, and get to catch up to that farm while you're dead as well as score a double kill on bot. You may think I'm making out AP Yi to be a lot better than he actually is, but I'm not. A few weeks ago I scored a 1v5 quadra / unofficial penta while my only items were [[rabadon's deathcap]] and [[lich bane]]. They weren't at full HP, but the person with the lowest HP there had 30% HP, while the rest ranged from 40% HP and above. As far as I know, there's no way to counter AP Yi either inside the laning phase or out of it. AP Yi's playstyle beats any lane opponent once he has 2 [[doran's ring]]s or a blue buff, and in teamfights he drops constant 700 damage multi-target nukes, and constant 1.1k or so single-target nukes ( because of [[lich bane]] ). Once he's got his 3 core items, [[rabadon's deathcap]], [[lich bane]] and [[deathfire grasp]], his burst kills an AD carry straight away with no chance of them surviving it, which immediately refreshes all of his spells' cooldowns, including [[alpha strike]] and [[highlander]]. During his burst [[alpha strike]] would have hit 3 other enemies, and if one of them was another squishy target, such as the AP carry or a squishy support like [[sona]], then with [[alpha strike]] and [[Lich bane]]'s proc he'll score another kill, drop another 700 damage nuke on most of their team, and have [[alpha strike]] refreshed AGAIN for another 700 damage nuke, which can potentially kill a 3rd target for yet another cooldowns refresh. So that's 2 or 3 enemies killed by AP Yi in about 3 seconds, of which in almost the entire duration he was untargettable. Only counter? Have all your squishies buy [[guardian angel]] so his cooldowns don't instantly refresh after his burst and he can be focused if your team is co-ordinated enough. Good luck making that happen in solo queue. [/quote] And if he gets hit by a malzahar combo, for example?[/quote]

[quote=Pølsemanden][quote=NicknameMy] Hmm, it seems to be an ap build focusing onto early cdr should work wonders with Yi. CDR quints, CDR glyphs, [[sorcery]] and [[intelligence]]. 20% CDR at lvl 1 could be pretty hard to deal with. And Yi has good mana regen with [[doran's ring]] and [[meditation]] aswell. ([[meditate]]+[[meditation]], lol) That would be pretty hard to deal with. Especially with first item [[deathfire grasp]]. [/quote] Just nicknamemy, nothing to see here.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=Thalia Kael] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=Thalia Kael] Lets say your playing ahri, you can easily charm him under his tower And once he blows his alpha strike, he cant do much more damage to you, so you can start zoning him and pushing his turret while he waits for the cooldown. And when he alpha strikes, dont run away, just follow him and attack him while he runs to his turret to meditate [/quote] You won't charm him under his tower, because you don't follow your enemy every time he goes into the fog of war, you just farm and call ss. And if you do actually decide to follow him, it would be stupid of him to [[meditate]] when he can clearly see [[Ahri]] walking up to him. He can just go PAST his tower to [[meditate]]. Don't count on stopping his lane sustain by interrupting [[meditate]] because any competent AP Yi will never be in any position that it can be interrupted, with the exception of jungler ganks forcing him to choose between healing or dying. You'll zone him while his [[alpha strike]] is on cooldown. Then it comes off of cooldown and he'll get 3 minion kills and you'll get hit by a massive nuke with 300 base damage and a 100% AP ratio. Then it will happen again, and again, then he'll kill you. I'd gladly let you out-farm me by 5 minions if it means I kill you, and get to catch up to that farm while you're dead as well as score a double kill on bot. You may think I'm making out AP Yi to be a lot better than he actually is, but I'm not. A few weeks ago I scored a 1v5 quadra / unofficial penta while my only items were [[rabadon's deathcap]] and [[lich bane]]. They weren't at full HP, but the person with the lowest HP there had 30% HP, while the rest ranged from 40% HP and above. As far as I know, there's no way to counter AP Yi either inside the laning phase or out of it. AP Yi's playstyle beats any lane opponent once he has 2 [[doran's ring]]s or a blue buff, and in teamfights he drops constant 700 damage multi-target nukes, and constant 1.1k or so single-target nukes ( because of [[lich bane]] ). Once he's got his 3 core items, [[rabadon's deathcap]], [[lich bane]] and [[deathfire grasp]], his burst kills an AD carry straight away with no chance of them surviving it, which immediately refreshes all of his spells' cooldowns, including [[alpha strike]] and [[highlander]]. During his burst [[alpha strike]] would have hit 3 other enemies, and if one of them was another squishy target, such as the AP carry or a squishy support like [[sona]], then with [[alpha strike]] and [[Lich bane]]'s proc he'll score another kill, drop another 700 damage nuke on most of their team, and have [[alpha strike]] refreshed AGAIN for another 700 damage nuke, which can potentially kill a 3rd target for yet another cooldowns refresh. So that's 2 or 3 enemies killed by AP Yi in about 3 seconds, of which in almost the entire duration he was untargettable. Only counter? Have all your squishies buy [[guardian angel]] so his cooldowns don't instantly refresh after his burst and he can be focused if your team is co-ordinated enough. Good luck making that happen in solo queue. [/quote] And if he gets hit by a malzahar combo, for example? [/quote] Never been in this scenario. A possible out-come is that [[Malzahar]] ults and it immediately cancels by [[Master Yi]] becoming untargettable, another possibility is that he never gets the chance to cast it because of Yi's untargetability. Even if [[Nether grasp]] out-ranges [[alpha strike]] though, [[Malzahar]] doesn't have time to cast all his other combo's spells before Yi [[alpha strike]]s, and as soon as Yi [[alpha strike]]s, with his 3 core items, it's an instant death for [[Malzahar]]. If you were referring to the laning phase, then [[Malzahar]] isn't yet fully capable of 100-0'ing [[Master Yi]], and therefore as soon as the ult ends Yi can walk away and trollheal. Malz could win the lane if he manages to get First Blood from a jungler gank or something though, I guess. It depends on how well Malz can 100-0 people early-game.[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999][quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=Thalia Kael] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=Thalia Kael] Lets say your playing ahri, you can easily charm him under his tower And once he blows his alpha strike, he cant do much more damage to you, so you can start zoning him and pushing his turret while he waits for the cooldown. And when he alpha strikes, dont run away, just follow him and attack him while he runs to his turret to meditate [/quote] You won't charm him under his tower, because you don't follow your enemy every time he goes into the fog of war, you just farm and call ss. And if you do actually decide to follow him, it would be stupid of him to [[meditate]] when he can clearly see [[Ahri]] walking up to him. He can just go PAST his tower to [[meditate]]. Don't count on stopping his lane sustain by interrupting [[meditate]] because any competent AP Yi will never be in any position that it can be interrupted, with the exception of jungler ganks forcing him to choose between healing or dying. You'll zone him while his [[alpha strike]] is on cooldown. Then it comes off of cooldown and he'll get 3 minion kills and you'll get hit by a massive nuke with 300 base damage and a 100% AP ratio. Then it will happen again, and again, then he'll kill you. I'd gladly let you out-farm me by 5 minions if it means I kill you, and get to catch up to that farm while you're dead as well as score a double kill on bot. You may think I'm making out AP Yi to be a lot better than he actually is, but I'm not. A few weeks ago I scored a 1v5 quadra / unofficial penta while my only items were [[rabadon's deathcap]] and [[lich bane]]. They weren't at full HP, but the person with the lowest HP there had 30% HP, while the rest ranged from 40% HP and above. As far as I know, there's no way to counter AP Yi either inside the laning phase or out of it. AP Yi's playstyle beats any lane opponent once he has 2 [[doran's ring]]s or a blue buff, and in teamfights he drops constant 700 damage multi-target nukes, and constant 1.1k or so single-target nukes ( because of [[lich bane]] ). Once he's got his 3 core items, [[rabadon's deathcap]], [[lich bane]] and [[deathfire grasp]], his burst kills an AD carry straight away with no chance of them surviving it, which immediately refreshes all of his spells' cooldowns, including [[alpha strike]] and [[highlander]]. During his burst [[alpha strike]] would have hit 3 other enemies, and if one of them was another squishy target, such as the AP carry or a squishy support like [[sona]], then with [[alpha strike]] and [[Lich bane]]'s proc he'll score another kill, drop another 700 damage nuke on most of their team, and have [[alpha strike]] refreshed AGAIN for another 700 damage nuke, which can potentially kill a 3rd target for yet another cooldowns refresh. So that's 2 or 3 enemies killed by AP Yi in about 3 seconds, of which in almost the entire duration he was untargettable. Only counter? Have all your squishies buy [[guardian angel]] so his cooldowns don't instantly refresh after his burst and he can be focused if your team is co-ordinated enough. Good luck making that happen in solo queue. [/quote] And if he gets hit by a malzahar combo, for example? [/quote] Never been in this scenario. A possible out-come is that [[Malzahar]] ults and it immediately cancels by [[Master Yi]] becoming untargettable, another possibility is that he never gets the chance to cast it because of Yi's untargetability. Even if [[Nether grasp]] out-ranges [[alpha strike]] though, [[Malzahar]] doesn't have time to cast all his other combo's spells before Yi [[alpha strike]]s, and as soon as Yi [[alpha strike]]s, with his 3 core items, it's an instant death for [[Malzahar]]. If you were referring to the laning phase, then [[Malzahar]] isn't yet fully capable of 100-0'ing [[Master Yi]], and therefore as soon as the ult ends Yi can walk away and trollheal. Malz could win the lane if he manages to get First Blood from a jungler gank or something though, I guess. It depends on how well Malz can 100-0 people early-game. [/quote] Level 6 Malzahar can easily 100-0 Yi. Yi can't [[alpha strike]], because Malz just [[Null Zone]] + [[Malefic visions]] + [[nether grasp]], easily killing Yi. Doesn't even have to [[malefic visions]]. You can cast [[ignite]] while channeling [[nether grasp]]. I'd like to also say that [[call of the void]] is really easy to hit on a [[meditate]]ing Yi. Malzahar is considered one of the best 1v1 mages in the game, he just sucks in teamfighting. He can easily make Yi burn his [[Meditate]] before going for the kill.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]"I'd like to also say that [[Call of the Void]] is really easy to hit on a [[Meditate]]ing Yi." Isn't that actually the same with like, [[charm]]? Try to stop him in the FoW. Try to towerdive him just to stop [[meditate]].[/quote]