Nocturne: Can't balance items

[quote=Zouchouten]So I picked Nocturne as my jungler since I bought him ages ago and haven't bought a better dedicated jungler. I'm aware Riven can jungle fine, but I don't like it myself. My issue is that I can't seem to balance damage and survivability. If I try building towards BotRK or The Black Cleaver, then I'll die easily in mid game. If I build a Randuin's Omen or other survivability early, then I can't kill. I know what I have to do is just build the most useful parts and finish building gear when its necessary or convenient, but I just can't find the best balance for success.[/quote]

[quote=Satella]Unless you're ridiculously fed, build survivability first (and try get the team utility items like [[Aegis of the Legion]]/[[Locket of the Iron Solari]] instead of a selfish item like [[Randuin's Omen]]). Your job is to ult, jump on an enemy squishy, and tethering them so that your team can follow up on your initiate. If you die before your CC goes off then you have failed your job. The reason why you can build damage early if you're fed is because you'll be higher leveled, thus having survivability from higher base stats. If you're behind, you need survivability (plus your team wants the effects of the Aegis/Locket items, which you can't use if you're dead).[/quote]

[quote=Scott Azrael]Honestly, I think a large part of the problem is you are trying to build something that costs too much that early. I was watching some of St. Vicious' Jungology(or Jungleology, he can't really decide) and one thing he stressed is that it's not just about what stats an item has, but what stats you get for that point in the game. He really likes the knew [[Spirit of the Ancient Golem]] and [[Spirit of the Elder Lizard]] because of what they give you early. So, if you are wanting to add some tankiness, you could try to build Ancient Golem early for the health, CDR, mana regen, health regen, and tenacity. It's not the best item if you are just looking at the stats, but rather it's great for early in the game to get some early stats. You combine that with a brutalizer or bilgewater cutlass and you have some tankiness and some damage. The top rated [[Nocturne]] guide on mobafire has a full item example build of wriggles, merc treads, BotRK, Randuins, Sunfire, and Runic Bulwark. I don't like wriggles but I guess it has it's uses. Personally, would substitute Ancient Golem for Wriggles which would free you up to buy whichever tier 2 boot fits your situation rather than just having to do merc treads for the tenacity. I'm not a Noc expert, but this is just going from what I have learned watching one of the better junglers. Also, check out Probuilds.net and see what people are building on Noc and in what order. You can see what masteries, Runes, and everything including what they played against.[/quote]

[quote=BMCO]Hey Zouchouten, "My issue is that I can't seem to balance damage and survivability. If I try building towards BotRK or The Black Cleaver, then I'll die easily in mid game. If I build a Randuin's Omen or other survivability early, then I can't kill." I'm a jungle main at Plat 5. He's one of my strongest champs and if I ever need to carry a game hard I rely on him. My recommendation to you is to build him like this; typically you will want to build one damage item to give him strong early/mid and scale some damage into late game such as [[Ravenous hydra]] [[Blade of the ruined king]] [[Black Cleaver]] [[The BloodThirster]] Personally, I reccomend [[Ravenous hydra]]... its really underplayed. From there you are going to want to build tank items that also offer some sort of offense within your defense. Some strong items include (and I reccomend getting) [[Randuin's omen]] [[Sunfire cape]] [[Runic Bulwark]] Others are good. but really you should experiment. If you would like me to elaborate more I will.. I can explain some reasoning behind my personal build and how to properly build him to optimize his kit[/quote]

[quote=rudyards]I prefer BotRK over Hydra because of how Noct scales well with Attack Speed. But I haven't played Nocturne in a while.[/quote]

[quote=BMCO][quote=rudyards] I prefer BotRK over Hydra because of how Noct scales well with Attack Speed. But I haven't played Nocturne in a while. [/quote] I would agree that BOTRK is just as viable and the preferred option among most... but it is all preference and play style :) You can make strong use out of both[/quote]

[quote=Bellpepper][quote=Satella] Unless you're ridiculously fed, build survivability first (and try get the team utility items like [[Aegis of the Legion]]/[[Locket of the Iron Solari]] instead of a selfish item like [[Randuin's Omen]]). Your job is to ult, jump on an enemy squishy, and tethering them so that your team can follow up on your initiate. If you die before your CC goes off then you have failed your job. [/quote] How is Randuins a selfish item? o_o Ulting into the enemy team and using the active is a great initiation, at least in my book[/quote]

[quote=sirell]It's selfish because it mostly benefits when the enemy attacks you. In other words, it only works in defense of you and also discourages others from attacking you (and thus your teammates instead) because of the passive. The non-selfish version is [[frozen heart]] because it benefits all even if you don't manage to score a single hit in a fight. [[Randuin's Omen]] is not THE most selfish, but it's not exactly a full-on team-based item.[/quote]

[quote=Riley5]I Agree with BMCO,we got some points there,especially for the underplayed Hydra,the thing is good.Hmm i love BOtRK + Frozen Mallet for my essential items,but Frozen Mallet not that efficent,maybe substitute it for a Randuins/Aegis/Warmog..these are good items..[/quote]