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What do you think of MobaFire's Scouting System?
OTGBionicArm wrote:
I get that, Vapora. I should clarify I'm talking about something entirely different. The line about claiming that something is missing in the cheat sheet, but it actually is in the guide later is mostly what Im talking about. I think guides should be judged as a whole.
Obviously if someone has stupid **** like Lichbane on Thresh in their cheat sheet, what you said applies.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but the cheat-sheet is the most visible and easiest to update part of a guide. If your guide mentions something, it should be extremely easy to put that in the cheat-sheet, unless it's explaining the reasoning behind situational stuff. Situational items should still appear in the cheat-sheet though.
I get what you mean, and yes it does seem unfair, but I'm not going to waste my time reading a full guide JUST IN CASE it ends up explaining what's wrong in the cheat-sheet. Just include everything important in the cheat-sheet, it's the easiest place to put it anyway. If a Nasus guide ( clearly not talking about yours here ) includes Rylai's, Rabadon's and Abyssal in the cheat-sheet, I'm not going to read the full guide just to see that the author goes on to say "These are trolly items which you never build in a serious game, but you can buy them if you're stomping and want to troll".
tl;dr, cheat-sheet = easiest thing for you to update and keep optimal. Cheat-sheet = easiest thing for me to read and make a quick decision on whether your guide is worth considering or not. If I don't like the cheat-sheet, I'm never going to bother reading the rest of the guide. YES, I do realize that if you cover something in the items section of a guide which you don't in your cheat-sheet, that doesn't make your guide bad, but I can't be expected to read through every guide when the most basic part isn't right.
Other Scouts might think differently, but my first condition for scouting a guide is that the cheat-sheet must be correct.
The_Nameless_Bard wrote:
People need to stop taking -scouts personally. It isn't some insult to the author specifically, no one's trying to say the author is a terrible player. They disagree with the content of a guide and they're allowed to.
I agree with you on this one. Scout points are given to the guide, not to the author. If the author doesn't like the -scout points he can ask why did someone give them or think about his guide. I do usually explain my -scout points though, even though I've got some revenge downvotes (My
Teemo guide went from 90% to 80% with the old rating system after I explained the votes >_<)
Vapora Dark wrote:
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but the cheat-sheet is the most visible and easiest to update part of a guide. If your guide mentions something, it should be extremely easy to put that in the cheat-sheet, unless it's explaining the reasoning behind situational stuff. Situational items should still appear in the cheat-sheet though.
I get what you mean, and yes it does seem unfair, but I'm not going to waste my time reading a full guide JUST IN CASE it ends up explaining what's wrong in the cheat-sheet. Just include everything important in the cheat-sheet, it's the easiest place to put it anyway. If a Nasus guide ( clearly not talking about yours here ) includes Rylai's, Rabadon's and Abyssal in the cheat-sheet, I'm not going to read the full guide just to see that the author goes on to say "These are trolly items which you never build in a serious game, but you can buy them if you're stomping and want to troll".
tl;dr, cheat-sheet = easiest thing for you to update and keep optimal. Cheat-sheet = easiest thing for me to read and make a quick decision on whether your guide is worth considering or not. If I don't like the cheat-sheet, I'm never going to bother reading the rest of the guide. YES, I do realize that if you cover something in the items section of a guide which you don't in your cheat-sheet, that doesn't make your guide bad, but I can't be expected to read through every guide when the most basic part isn't right.
Other Scouts might think differently, but my first condition for scouting a guide is that the cheat-sheet must be correct.
I'll use Vynertje's nitpicking as an example (no offense vyn! I just don't have another readily available example without hunting through every guide thats ever been -scouted).
One of his points in his review was that I don't have a vs AP item order in my cheat sheet. I do go over this in the guide, but I don't have it in the cheat sheet. I've since updated it to include this in the notes, as the format of my sheets don't allow it to be heavily altered like that. :p
Some other examples I've seen have been a few scout reviews where they asked why specific items werent in the cheat sheet, but they were covered later in the guide.
I'm another one who primarily downvotes based on the cheatsheet. Above 75% acceptable cheatsheet avoids a downvote and only at 90% acceptable do I usually move onto the rest of the guide.
Only exception to this is when someone asks me directly to review their guide, then I give the courtesy of looking over everything, regardless of how wrong their cheatsheet may be.
Every time me or a friend of mine use(d) a guide, we would never actually read it. We just want a quick reference in order to sort out item choices and build paths, as well as initial set-ups. I only study a champion when I intend to main them. I actually get the feeling that about 80% of the people who use guides don't actually look past the cheatsheet. Plus, anything that's in your guide honestly can be in the cheatsheet; it's really not that much effort.
So to rate a guide, the best place to start is in the cheatsheet. Getting it right is the bare minimum to avoiding a downvote from me, solely because it's the most visible part of a guide.
You can make anonymity optional, since I'd never opt to use it. I'd rather not have other known Scouts hold accountability for something I said and advocated. Even if it was an anonymous system, I'd still tag my username.
I've usually given my reasons for a Scouting, but I think making it C2Scout should be mandatory as well. If people are getting a Scout point added/deducted, they deserve to at least know why.
I'm also pretty sure that everything else has been brought up by GMD's post. Tbh, I also consider the scouting system to be negligible. I can't really tell the difference between a scouted guide and a non-scouted guide. Hell, I didn't even know Jhoi's guide has 6 negative points until a few days ago; it still shows up everywhere Nasus is to be found.
Only exception to this is when someone asks me directly to review their guide, then I give the courtesy of looking over everything, regardless of how wrong their cheatsheet may be.
Every time me or a friend of mine use(d) a guide, we would never actually read it. We just want a quick reference in order to sort out item choices and build paths, as well as initial set-ups. I only study a champion when I intend to main them. I actually get the feeling that about 80% of the people who use guides don't actually look past the cheatsheet. Plus, anything that's in your guide honestly can be in the cheatsheet; it's really not that much effort.
So to rate a guide, the best place to start is in the cheatsheet. Getting it right is the bare minimum to avoiding a downvote from me, solely because it's the most visible part of a guide.
You can make anonymity optional, since I'd never opt to use it. I'd rather not have other known Scouts hold accountability for something I said and advocated. Even if it was an anonymous system, I'd still tag my username.
I've usually given my reasons for a Scouting, but I think making it C2Scout should be mandatory as well. If people are getting a Scout point added/deducted, they deserve to at least know why.
I'm also pretty sure that everything else has been brought up by GMD's post. Tbh, I also consider the scouting system to be negligible. I can't really tell the difference between a scouted guide and a non-scouted guide. Hell, I didn't even know Jhoi's guide has 6 negative points until a few days ago; it still shows up everywhere
Nasus is to be found.
sirell wrote:
I didn't even know Jhoi's guide has 6 negative points until a few days ago; it still shows up everywhere Nasus is to be found.
That's because -scouting a guide without +scout points does nothing except tell the author (if the author is a scout or higher), "Your guide sucks so bad I need to make sure everyone in the scout forum sees how much I think it sucks" :P
jhoijhoi wrote:
That's because -scouting a guide without +scout points does nothing except tell the author (if the author is a scout or higher), "Your guide sucks so bad I need to make sure everyone in the scout forum sees how much I think it sucks" :P
Er, perhaps that guide owner should also get a notification as well. It seems unfair if only Scouts and up are notified when they get + or - scout...
My Guides
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On a technicality though, nobody gets a notification.
I would like to see the scout system improved on since currently, there's no real incentive to scout since most of them are high elo guides... which shows over the scouted banner anyway.
Maybe some actual incentive to look at the newer guides, and of course feedback on when/why something is scouted. I mean, if I really felt like it, and it wasn't an abuse of power, I could just go DownScout literally every guide, minus my own, and there wouldn't be a huge impact for most guides since they wouldn't have been scouted anyway. (mostly the lower percentage guides)
As for DownScouting, it's not impactful at all. This is assuming we retain the system that says we can DownScout guides that have no scout points in the first place. All it really means is that you have to have 2 people UpScout it to actually get it scouted, which because nobody is notified, may be quite a while if nobody checks the list.
Just my tired 2 cents.
I would like to see the scout system improved on since currently, there's no real incentive to scout since most of them are high elo guides... which shows over the scouted banner anyway.
Maybe some actual incentive to look at the newer guides, and of course feedback on when/why something is scouted. I mean, if I really felt like it, and it wasn't an abuse of power, I could just go DownScout literally every guide, minus my own, and there wouldn't be a huge impact for most guides since they wouldn't have been scouted anyway. (mostly the lower percentage guides)
As for DownScouting, it's not impactful at all. This is assuming we retain the system that says we can DownScout guides that have no scout points in the first place. All it really means is that you have to have 2 people UpScout it to actually get it scouted, which because nobody is notified, may be quite a while if nobody checks the list.
Just my tired 2 cents.
Haven't read all the forum posts for this yet - on page 3, so pardon me if some groundbreaking post has already wrote something about this, but i can imagine that a lot of scouts get badgered by non-scout mobafire users asking for scout points.
Their inbox probably looks something like this:
SAMPLE INBOX MESSAGE:
Their inbox probably looks something like this:
SAMPLE INBOX MESSAGE:
If I helped you out, be sure to throw me a +Rep!
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My Soraka Guide | My Review Service
Thanks a lot for the sig, jhoi! :)
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My Soraka Guide | My Review Service
Thanks a lot for the sig, jhoi! :)
When scouts give you a downvote and/or reasoning for why they disagree with the content in a your guide and you choose to disagree, it's pretty safe to assume they (or someone who agrees with their sentiment) will probably -scout your guide if it gets +scouted or is already featured. This is why I haven't bothered to complain about the -scout on my Soraka guide. I disagreed with at least 2 scouts who actually commented on the guide and therefore have no reason not to think they or someone else wouldn't -scout it if it was +scouted. This applies to everyone and I'm tired of people acting like they haven't been given reasons for the -scouts their guides have. There are exceptions where no one has said anything, but they are few and far between from what I've looked at.
Anonymity doesn't make this any less true and forcing people to comment when they +/-scout won't "fix the problem". It'll often result in people repeating comments they've already made, which won't make a lot of the people complaining any happier.
People need to stop taking -scouts personally. It isn't some insult to the author specifically, no one's trying to say the author is a terrible player. They disagree with the content of a guide and they're allowed to.