^^ You know what I did? I went ahead and bought Udyr + a full page of attack speed runes just because I was annoyed that my friends would say, "I guess I'm jungling because jhoi can't."
And you know what happened?
Udyr sucked :P
You have to practice to get good with switching between stances in the jungle. And you have to have the attack speed runes to finish off Blue without dying (I've found).
Not only all of the above, but he's not a great pick for the jungle and he falls of a lot in team fights.
From what I remember the jungling route I took was:
Double Golem > Wraiths > Wolves > Blue Buff > Recall/Red Buff > Gank/do any camps that have respawned.
I've seen pro Udyr's start at enemy Red, then take Wraiths and go and gank top lane at level 2 (only if the enemy team has a jungler who starts at blue/no jungler at all)
And you know what happened?
Udyr sucked :P
You have to practice to get good with switching between stances in the jungle. And you have to have the attack speed runes to finish off Blue without dying (I've found).
Not only all of the above, but he's not a great pick for the jungle and he falls of a lot in team fights.
From what I remember the jungling route I took was:
Double Golem > Wraiths > Wolves > Blue Buff > Recall/Red Buff > Gank/do any camps that have respawned.
I've seen pro Udyr's start at enemy Red, then take Wraiths and go and gank top lane at level 2 (only if the enemy team has a jungler who starts at blue/no jungler at all)
Oh. I'm good with the stances. Yea. AS runes are needed for killing blue before level 3 for me.
Sig courtesy of GrandmasterD. Go get your own sig from them. :D
What.
Are you. Are you on crack. Or. Do you just suck at Udyr? By your own admission.
Safest way to jungle. Is take W first, start at golems, when you lvl up take r, go to blue, start with phoenix and wait till the proc comes, then switch to w, then to r, take an hp pot, and switch to w, restore some mana and take r again, smite at 425 health and you should be fine. You don't need as runes. If you jungle with tiger and do blue @ lvl 1 you need someone to leash it for you or you'll die, but you basically just spam tiger on golem and take some hp pots. You survive with serious low health but if you get some fort quints/seals/glyphs/marks then you can go do wolves with turtle.
And Udyr is FAR from uselesss in late game. Tiger does srs damage late game and he has a 5 man stun, he's a SUPERB ganker and has some of the best jungling in the game.
Are you. Are you on crack. Or. Do you just suck at Udyr? By your own admission.
Safest way to jungle. Is take W first, start at golems, when you lvl up take r, go to blue, start with phoenix and wait till the proc comes, then switch to w, then to r, take an hp pot, and switch to w, restore some mana and take r again, smite at 425 health and you should be fine. You don't need as runes. If you jungle with tiger and do blue @ lvl 1 you need someone to leash it for you or you'll die, but you basically just spam tiger on golem and take some hp pots. You survive with serious low health but if you get some fort quints/seals/glyphs/marks then you can go do wolves with turtle.
And Udyr is FAR from uselesss in late game. Tiger does srs damage late game and he has a 5 man stun, he's a SUPERB ganker and has some of the best jungling in the game.
Nighthawk: That's also one of the slowest ways to jungle.
Ideally you start with either Q or R (R is MUCH faster for jungling but Q is better for ganking) and start at either blue or double golems (blue is more traditional, double is probably stronger but slower). Get a leash, take it out really fast, and speed through your jungle. All you need are the AS marks. I recommend dodge seals, MR glyphs (or more AS if you're into that) and movement speed quints (or flat health, if you're into that).
Ideally you start with either Q or R (R is MUCH faster for jungling but Q is better for ganking) and start at either blue or double golems (blue is more traditional, double is probably stronger but slower). Get a leash, take it out really fast, and speed through your jungle. All you need are the AS marks. I recommend dodge seals, MR glyphs (or more AS if you're into that) and movement speed quints (or flat health, if you're into that).
Nighthawk wrote:
What. Are you. Are you on crack. Or. Do you just suck at Udyr? By your own admission.
Oh, I'm a terrible Udyr. I'm worse at Udyr than I am with Alistar. But I tried to learn him during a stage when Udyr was always the enemy jungler and seemed to rape our team (when I was below level 30, probably around 21, when no one bought Banshee's Veil and everyone was an AD carry).
Quoted:
If you jungle with tiger and do blue @ lvl 1 you need someone to leash it for you or you'll die, but you basically just spam tiger on golem and take some hp pots. You survive with serious low health but if you get some fort quints/seals/glyphs/marks then you can go do wolves with turtle.
Then later on you say "Udyr is the best jungler in the game". Not so at all. I'd say Nunu is the best jungler and best ganker. The fact that Udyr is always so close to dying when he jungles is absolutely **** for a jungler. I may be a bad Udyr, but I know the rudimentary jungling idealistics and even Nasus does better in the jungle than Udyr in terms of not dying.
Quoted:
And Udyr is FAR from uselesss in late game. Tiger does srs damage late game and he has a 5 man stun.
Udyr is useless late game. He really is. He only shines early game when he can Bear Stance stun and rape a solo lane/a lane that's pushed. After everyone hits level 6 and teamfights occur, all he can do is be a sub-par melee champion. I'd say even Xin is better (and Xin is one of the worst melee champs).
If I wanted a stun melee hero, I'd go for Irelia. You say he has a 5 man stun, but that's incorrect. Unless you have serious skills in teamfights and go "duck duck duck duck duck duck goose" in succession for each enemy champion, you can only stun each one every 6 seconds.
Don't know about you, but team fights do not last more than 25-30 seconds.
Jebus McAzn wrote:
Nighthawk: That's also one of the slowest ways to jungle.
Ideally you start with either Q or R (R is MUCH faster for jungling but Q is better for ganking) and start at either blue or double golems (blue is more traditional, double is probably stronger but slower). Get a leash, take it out really fast, and speed through your jungle. All you need are the AS marks. I recommend dodge seals, MR glyphs (or more AS if you're into that) and movement speed quints (or flat health, if you're into that).
Pheonix Udyr starts at Wraiths, Tiger starts at small golems.
Tri lane for life.
Lugignaf wrote:
I start at Wraiths with tiger. Of course, I don't have "proper" runes.
Udyr, late game, becomes more of a "pick and choose" guy. 1v1 he's good. Teamfights though, he loses some, if not a lot, of power IMO.
I was mainly saying that Pheonix starts at wraiths, I've never actually seen tiger jungle in a game I've played.
Always see tiger in the lane.
Tri lane for life.
@Jebus
Yes it's one of the slowest and Phoenix Jungle is generally better, but if you die as phoenix, you probably won't die as turtle, which as I recall was the goal here.
@Jhoi
nonono, I never said Udyr is the best jungle in the game. I said he is one of the best, aka top tier. As for Nasus being more durable then udyr at jungling, trolololol. I would advise you to perhaps play some GOOD Udyr games or not use your own experience with him when you talk about sustained jungling because generally in terms of sustained jungling it goes something like this
Nunu > Warwick > Udyr
As for being useless after lvl 6, that's even more BS. Not to be blunt (well it is blunt, but my apologies), but while you may suck as Udyr after lvl 6, Udyr does not. A lot of Phoenix Udyr's main damage comes mid game after lvl 6 and Atmog's Udyr honestly SHINES mid game.
Irelia is a very good offtank atm and has a crazy stun, probably does a bit more damage then udyr late game too. But I'm not comparing the two. As for late game teamfights, Udyr is generally more of an offtank/anti carry late game then the main damage dealer. And honestly it doesn't take that much skill to pop some stuns on people when they aren't completely crowded around. And if they are crowded around, I can almost guarantee you'll have an AoE person on your team/be able to do some damage with phoenix. Oh and if the teamfight does last 30 seconds or less, you should be congratulating yourself, you should be able to completely disrupt the flow of the teamfight in your favor and potentially take someone out for a long time in order to give your team an advantage.
@Temzilla
Nonono, NEVER EVER should you start at wraiths as Phoenix Udyr. Probably one of the worst things you could do. You should either go the golems to golems route (which is probably stronger but slightly slower) or go to blue buff (which will solve udyr's problems with mana for the rest of his jungling). Starting at small golems with Tiger is pretty good but I rarely use Tiger except for the faster blue buff @lvl 1.
TL;DR
Udyr is a very good and sustainable jungler early, has good ganks and good early game damage. His damage as Phoenix trails off a bit late game and he is used more for his stun and as an anti carry late game. As Tiger his late game damage only gets better and he is very good at 1 v 1. Phoenix starts either at small golem or blue buff, and Tiger either starts at blue or golems.
Yes it's one of the slowest and Phoenix Jungle is generally better, but if you die as phoenix, you probably won't die as turtle, which as I recall was the goal here.
@Jhoi
nonono, I never said Udyr is the best jungle in the game. I said he is one of the best, aka top tier. As for Nasus being more durable then udyr at jungling, trolololol. I would advise you to perhaps play some GOOD Udyr games or not use your own experience with him when you talk about sustained jungling because generally in terms of sustained jungling it goes something like this
Nunu > Warwick > Udyr
As for being useless after lvl 6, that's even more BS. Not to be blunt (well it is blunt, but my apologies), but while you may suck as Udyr after lvl 6, Udyr does not. A lot of Phoenix Udyr's main damage comes mid game after lvl 6 and Atmog's Udyr honestly SHINES mid game.
Irelia is a very good offtank atm and has a crazy stun, probably does a bit more damage then udyr late game too. But I'm not comparing the two. As for late game teamfights, Udyr is generally more of an offtank/anti carry late game then the main damage dealer. And honestly it doesn't take that much skill to pop some stuns on people when they aren't completely crowded around. And if they are crowded around, I can almost guarantee you'll have an AoE person on your team/be able to do some damage with phoenix. Oh and if the teamfight does last 30 seconds or less, you should be congratulating yourself, you should be able to completely disrupt the flow of the teamfight in your favor and potentially take someone out for a long time in order to give your team an advantage.
@Temzilla
Nonono, NEVER EVER should you start at wraiths as Phoenix Udyr. Probably one of the worst things you could do. You should either go the golems to golems route (which is probably stronger but slightly slower) or go to blue buff (which will solve udyr's problems with mana for the rest of his jungling). Starting at small golems with Tiger is pretty good but I rarely use Tiger except for the faster blue buff @lvl 1.
TL;DR
Udyr is a very good and sustainable jungler early, has good ganks and good early game damage. His damage as Phoenix trails off a bit late game and he is used more for his stun and as an anti carry late game. As Tiger his late game damage only gets better and he is very good at 1 v 1. Phoenix starts either at small golem or blue buff, and Tiger either starts at blue or golems.
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Current build/jungle order is
Long Sword,
Health PotionX5- Wraiths (use smite), wolves, Small golems.
Cloth Armor,
Health Potion- Blue Buff
skill order is QWQEAny tips?